What a shame

[Fr J Hackett]

Not to forget how many wings from wind turbines they don’t know what todo with……..if we had just stuck with wooden boatbuilding and maybe steel we as you say not have this problem and there would be work for craftsmen not just laminators and there would be fewer boats less marinas altogether better.

Selfish luddite

 

[Wansworth]

Selfish luddite

After the war there was plywood which afforded material for amateurs and professional builders as well as the traditional boatbuilders there were scouters on the IOW building coldmoulded and fairy marine we didn’t need GRP but we have it and no going back and pointless to think how it might have been.But as a non Luddite what about making the GRP hulls in to rooves mounted on a brick base to create cheap quick housing ……

 

[Fr J Hackett]

After the war there was plywood which afforded material for amateurs and professional builders as well as the traditional boatbuilders there were scouters on the IOW building coldmoulded and fairy marine we didn’t need GRP but we have it and no going back and pointless to think how it might have been.

Sticking to what you suggest ie your take on traditional materials and methods would have denied development and the opportunity of sailing to many that came with the "mass production" of yachts in GRP.
I am sure there is another rock for you to sit on outside that cave and you can then go down to the river and paddle your dug out canoe to your hearts content.
Wooden and steel boats apart from some expensive one offs and the odd home build ( and they can be very odd) are in no way comparable to a GRP construction. Even in terms of longevity and maintenance GRP beats the shit out of wood.

 

[flaming]

Even in terms of longevity and maintenance GRP beats the shit out of wood.

That longevity does seem to have come with a few drawbacks to be fair...

However, I don't think that the future of boat building is a return to wood or steel, but more of a move to more sustainable materials that can be worked in a similar way to GRP.

 

[Wansworth]

Sticking to what you suggest ie your take on traditional materials and methods would have denied development and the opportunity of sailing to many that came with the "mass production" of yachts in GRP.
I am sure there is another rock for you to sit on outside that cave and you can then go down to the river and paddle your dug out canoe to your hearts content.
Wooden and steel boats apart from some expensive one offs and the odd home build ( and they can be very odd) are in no way comparable to a GRP construction. Even in terms of longevity and maintenance GRP beats the shit out of wood.

My Mashford four ton reís still going strong in the med having being built before the war it can be no doubt be recycled.you missed my comment on plywood which provided boating cheaply……..besides people should know their place and not expect to go galivantingabout in a yacht like the wealthy .Your garden seating you made is a good example ,quality workmanship but it is honest and built to last unlike my garden furniture looks great inthe shopping mall but is actually cheap wood and cheap construction made to profit and for the masses think they are film stars

 

[Fr J Hackett]

My Mashford four ton reís still going strong in the med having being built before the war it can be no doubt be recycled.you missed my comment on plywood which provided boating cheaply……..besides people should know their place and not expect to go galivantingabout in a yacht like the wealthy .Your garden seating you made is a good example ,quality workmanship but it is honest and built to last unlike my garden furniture looks great inthe shopping mall but is actually cheap wood and cheap construction made to profit for the masses think they are film stars

And how many Mashford 4 toners that were built still exist, not a great proportion I guess and would they really suit today's lifestyle expectations? Certainly not. Small, damp, dank and cramped interiors. The difference between us is in expectation and realism and indeed the sailing. A wooden boat can't be maintained by someone without reasonable woodworking skills and time, many can't afford the time and don't have the skills to maintain a GRP yacht reading many of the posts.
When I sailed I did have the skill and the tools to maintain a wooden boat ( I wouldn't have touched a steel or Ferro Cement with a barge pole) but I didn't have the time. I did look at a few SCODs and EAODs and quickly realised they were a liability.
Nostalgia is fine until it comes face to face with reality.
And one last word cruel though it may be, had that Mashford 4 tonne which you fondly dream of and remember remained in your ownership it would have sunk by now or lain neglected and rotten with bodged repairs leaking sea and rainwater.

 

[Wansworth]

And how many Mashford 4 toners that were built still exist, not a great proportion I guess and would they really suit today's lifestyle expectations? Certainly not. Small, damp, dank and cramped interiors. The difference between us is in expectation and realism and indeed the sailing. A wooden boat can't be maintained by someone without reasonable woodworking skills and time, many can't afford the time and don't have the skills to maintain a GRP yacht reading many of the posts.
When I sailed I did have the skill and the tools to maintain a wooden boat ( I wouldn't have touched a steel or Ferro Cement with a barge pole) but I didn't have the time. I did look at a few SCODs and EAODs and quickly realised they were a liability.
Nostalgia is fine until it comes face to face with reality.
And one last word cruel though it may be, had that Mashford 4 tonne which you fondly dream of and remember remained in your ownership it would have sunk by now or lain neglected and rotten with bodged repairs leaking sea and rainwater.

But you miss the point of my post in fact it’s more the example of pool side furniture that I am trying to get across……….Ask Tranona how his plywood Eventide is going the boating public could have managed withoutGRP …..but that’s history

 

[Fr J Hackett]

But you miss the point of my post in fact it’s more the example of pool side furniture that I am trying to get across……….Ask Tranona how his plywood Eventide is going the boating public could have managed withoutGRP …..but that’s history

I will take up the cudgel again and beat you with it now I can post again.

Wooden garden furniture that will last is expensive, needs to be well designed and made but above all needs significant maintenance or as you have found out it falls apart. The same applies to wooden boats. Traonas Eventide has had an extensive restoration by someone with the tools, skill and time to do it. Ask him which is / was the easier to maintain his Bavaria 3,000 miles away or his Eventide?
I will say something that most will not like and disagree with:

Bill Tillman was a devotee of old wooden boats, he actually had little choice at the time. In my opinion he maintained them on a shoestring and was continually having problems with one aspect of the boat or another. How many did he lose under him?
His foray in an old steel bathtub again ill prepared and poorly maintained cost him and the rest of the crew their lives.
People with far less fortitude and doggedness than Tillman sail perfectly well and safely in GRP boats, some old and some new without the dramas ( despite what you see on You Tube) that was the curse of sailing with Tillman.

 

[DownWest]

Tilman was a supernumery on that last voyage, along for the ride. Kukri sailed a couple of times with HRT and knew well the limitations.
Agree with wooden boats, especialy plank on frame, constant upkeep or they go down hill rapidly. Ply, or cold moulded, less so, but still need to keep it up.

Nice to see you back..

 

[Wansworth]

I will take up the cudgel again and beat you with it now I can post again.

Wooden garden furniture that will last is expensive, needs to be well designed and made but above all needs significant maintenance or as you have found out it falls apart. The same applies to wooden boats. Traonas Eventide has had an extensive restoration by someone with the tools, skill and time to do it. Ask him which is / was the easier to maintain his Bavaria 3,000 miles away or his Eventide?
I will say something that most will not like and disagree with:

Bill Tillman was a devotee of old wooden boats, he actually had little choice at the time. In my opinion he maintained them on a shoestring and was continually having problems with one aspect of the boat or another. How many did he lose under him?
His foray in an old steel bathtub again ill prepared and poorly maintained cost him and the rest of the crew their lives.
People with far less fortitude and doggedness than Tillman sail perfectly well and safely in GRP boats, some old and some new without the dramas ( despite what you see on You Tube) that was the curse of sailing with Tillman.

I wondered where you had gone …..a sort of fun weekend break……with reference to the steel ex tug Tilman was invited to go as crew by the much younger owner but the shoestring still probably applies. ……staying with the garden furniture the masses are sold look alike proper furniture but as it’s pretending to be what the well off have but at bargain prices and made in Asia it doesn’t stand the test of time……..maybe only those that can afford a wooden boat or can build one should have a boat?of course there is nothing stopping people keeping on on a shoestring……….but imagine a world of wooden boats creating work for craftsmen and apprenticeships …….but to be realistic your probably correct!

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Tilman was a supernumery on that last voyage, along for the ride. Kukri sailed a couple of times with HRT and knew well the limitations.
Agree with wooden boats, especialy plank on frame, constant upkeep or they go down hill rapidly. Ply, or cold moulded, less so, but still need to keep it up.

Nice to see you back..

He was Navigator on Avant

Kukri sadly not posting nowadays sailed with him once, perhaps a case of once was enough.

 

[DownWest]

He was Navigator on Avant

Kukri sadly not posting nowadays sailed with him once, perhaps a case of once was enough.

He posts a lot on the WBF under his intials.
Forgot about being Avant's nav.