Egret
Well-Known Member
North Norfolk News reports that Blakeney Council are going to take steps to auction some 'abandoned boats' if they cannot find/identify owners.
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What a shame
- Thread starter gaylord694
- Start date
seeSimon
Well-Known Member
I fear similar here.
Relevant to the OP in that it will disproportionately affect, and so prevent participation by older/cheaper/smaller boats. Those that might just join in on an occasional nice day?
This is, and always has been (at least for very many years) a Cat 4 event. It still is, but those that know best seem to have invoked the OSR clause 2.01 and upgraded to Cat 4 plus VHF (fair enough, imho, but that's odd in it's own right- that VHF is still not an OSR requirement? ) AND liferaft.
"OSR . SECTION 2 - APPLICATION & GENERAL REQUIREMENTS 2.01 Categories of Events ** Organizing Authorities shall select from one of the following categories and may modify the OSR to suit local conditions".
Egret
Well-Known Member
Following SeeSimon #162 looked at EAORA - Pattison Cup Burnham to West Mersea now Cat 3 but only 7 entries 2024 where there used to be dozens - no stellas - and indicated two were old Sigma 33's albeit upgraded. No argument Cat 3 crossing North Sea. Round the Isle of Wight is Cat 4 -
But if you can afford carbon sails you can afford a liferaft. Company near where I worked used to hire them out. Survey every 2 years including keel fair.
Question is what can be done to get all the boats that used to race Burnham Week and similar in the 1980's back out racing again.
But if you can afford carbon sails you can afford a liferaft. Company near where I worked used to hire them out. Survey every 2 years including keel fair.
Question is what can be done to get all the boats that used to race Burnham Week and similar in the 1980's back out racing again.
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flaming
Well-Known Member
Just for the record, cat 4 already requires a handheld VHF. Is your committee requiring a fixed VHF? If so it sounds like they are discouraging the sorts of boats who do not have a wired 12v system. E.g sportsboats etc. Cat 4 races ought to be applicable to sportsboats I'd have thought.
Adding liferaft to cat 4 seems odd. I cannot think of a good reason to add liferaft to cat 4 instead of upgrading to cat 3.
I think that Burnham to West Mersea ought to be a cat 4 race. It's a short passage completed in daylight hours. Cat 3 has quite a lot of requirements, can be quite onerous. Not especially in the money point of view, as you say if you're buying carbon sails.... But more in that to go through the boat and check compliance, then order and fit the things you don't have, is a big job.
So as you say, it's a barrier to entry into racing. And perversely passage racing of that type is probably the most accessible type of racing for newcomers. Long legs and few sail changes.
I think JOG has it right. Their cross channel stuff is all Cat 3 + liferaft. Their coastal stuff, designed to be completed during daylight, is cat 4. That goes as far as Weymouth. And that's not a series that is dying, far from it.
TSB240
Well-Known Member
Those boats are 45 years older now! Most should be museum pieces now! Most plywood dinghies will have been burned on a bonfire. Two of mine have.
This problem is not unique to South Coast venues. The Menai Strait fortnight was traditionally a massive venue for all types of sailors from cadets through daysailers to off shore racers.
Sadly this type of sailing holiday has to compete with a multitude of dinghy national championships most of the successful ones have compressed a sailing week of racing into 5 days.
The regatta has been run without the supporting foundation of any dinghy classes for a number of years. Losing this base was the beginning of the end.
A fortnights stay in Wales is not cheap(getting more expensive with Dippy's tourism tax take) and probably not as attractive as a Med flotty or club.
It was heavily supported by local and NW England dinghy sailing clubs. It started dying as soon as it lost these entries. Most of the original wooden dayboat class entries have collapsed(Hoylake Operas, West Kirby Stars and Hilbres and Falcons, Mersey Milnes, Conwy ODs) .
The ISORA crowd gave up on the round island race 10 years ago.
Racing now revolves around a few wealthy locals with very expensive plastic copies of local wooden one design day sailers ( Conwy fifes ) or a few remaining locals with prized fragile post war relics (MSOD's).
This is not as spectacular as watching a previous fleet of 200+ boats navigate through The Swellies or sail around Puffin Island all at the same time.
The Castle to Castle rowers and Annual Swellies raft racers get much more support on and off the water in one day than the traditional two week regatta!
Perhaps a paddle board or jetski race could open things up to a younger group and gain a new foundation of boaters.
Regattas are not all about racing sailing boats.
Egret
Well-Known Member
Interesting how it is in your part of the country. It seems therefore we are lucky overall on the Thames Estuary / East Coast with boating still being relatively active, racing dinghies, catamarans, kites, paddleboards (with dogs), coastal rowing, cruising generally (dare I say) mainly in lower budget older GRP boats and the traditional boats, gaffers, smacks, barges, local clinker 15-18ft one designs, (plastic copies not expensive) club local handicap cruiser racing, Sonatas and similar. Young people as well as older, mainly localish people. Certainly not just the 'wealthy' here. Club had an SB3 fleet for a while, now big fleet of Sonatas as they are cheaper to buy, with a number of club boats for 'pay as you go'.
The reduction at Burnham seems to have been the 25 - 40 ft cruiser racers that needed a large crew (maybe difficult to get commitment from people to crew each week, now people don't tend to work and socialise together so much) - and with boats of the size of Contessas, Twisters and Stellas no longer doing the races across the North Sea, maybe due to the rules.
Following from the OP, just looking for people to dust off some of the still OK boats lying around, maybe by paddleboarders (lots of them here), and sail or race them again, or just as a floating beach hut, as mine is generally.
The reduction at Burnham seems to have been the 25 - 40 ft cruiser racers that needed a large crew (maybe difficult to get commitment from people to crew each week, now people don't tend to work and socialise together so much) - and with boats of the size of Contessas, Twisters and Stellas no longer doing the races across the North Sea, maybe due to the rules.
Following from the OP, just looking for people to dust off some of the still OK boats lying around, maybe by paddleboarders (lots of them here), and sail or race them again, or just as a floating beach hut, as mine is generally.
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gaylord694
Well-Known Member
His wife visited the yard at weekend and said anyone was welcome to whatever they wanted before it got carted off to the knackers yard. A guy down the yard took off the Aries self steering system and the boom but what's funny is he hasn't even got a boat !
Snowgoose-1
Well-Known Member
Yes. Still lots of people enjoying the water.
One thing that seems quite rare these days are cruising families with their children in the school holidays.
I don't know why. Perhaps so many things youngsters can do now.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
…… no but he may have an eBay account!
Keith 66
Well-Known Member
When i worked down Leigh old town i broke quite a few wrecks up on the beach at Southend & a few subsequently.
Its hard heavy dangerous work, If the boat is grp horribly dusty too. Several days in a respirator itching like fury with the dust. It isnt something that you should ask club volunteers to do. It costs money to chop boats up & rightly so.
Buggered if i will do it for nowt!
As far as restoring them goes its simple economics, My last two yachts have been restorations of what would be classed as end of life boats. The first an Anderson 22 was sold 12 years ago in immaculate condition & is now back to where she was an end of life wreck.
The second my Sabre 27 i could have bought twice over with what it cost to bring her back. That without new sails etc last year. Old yachts are a mugs game!
Still i enjoy it.
Egret
Well-Known Member
The professional recyclers don't seem to be particularly expensive considering what is involved, so that must be the way to go when the time finally comes. See Post #52.
Perhaps a club with a boat to dispose would be better to hold a fund raising event to raise the disposal cost and give it a good send off.
(I would have thought most clubs and yards keep tabs on what is in their boat parks and turn out each year if fees not paid, but maybe not, as in #175 - creeks without an active harbour authority may be different.)
Perhaps a club with a boat to dispose would be better to hold a fund raising event to raise the disposal cost and give it a good send off.
(I would have thought most clubs and yards keep tabs on what is in their boat parks and turn out each year if fees not paid, but maybe not, as in #175 - creeks without an active harbour authority may be different.)
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Slowboater33
Well-Known Member
Probably be on eBay then very shortly. !! Where is this poor old boat.
ducked
Well-Known Member
Seems like cut up hull material could sometimes be re-used for things like reinforcement in way of chainplates, laminated into a mast compression beam, ring frames or pads to take bulkhead tabbing, rigging deadeyes (?) etc or in extremis, ground up as filler, though you'd need an industrial facility to do that safely on any scale.
Failing that, incineration at a temperature that'd melt the glass, with energy recovery and good air pollution control would seem to be optimal, but I dunno how often that happens. Mostly it seems to go just to landfill.
Failing that, incineration at a temperature that'd melt the glass, with energy recovery and good air pollution control would seem to be optimal, but I dunno how often that happens. Mostly it seems to go just to landfill.
Keith 66
Well-Known Member
Problem with old grp is that it is often contaminated with antifouls such as Tbt (still around on many long abandoned boats) Also unreacted peroxide catalyst (oxidising agent) that stays in the laminate, grind the grp up & this makes the filler powder prone to spontaneous combustion.
The energy costs in grinding the stuff up are significant & this makes filler more expensive by far than new virgin stuff.
Plants have been set up to deal with waste grp but they depend on a steady supply of feedstock & new waste from industrial laminators is preferable as it doesnt have the contamination issues of antifouls etc.
Boats have always been a surprisingly small part of the composites industry approx 10% so in the grand scheme of things recycling boats isnt really economic hence landfill often being prefered.
The energy costs in grinding the stuff up are significant & this makes filler more expensive by far than new virgin stuff.
Plants have been set up to deal with waste grp but they depend on a steady supply of feedstock & new waste from industrial laminators is preferable as it doesnt have the contamination issues of antifouls etc.
Boats have always been a surprisingly small part of the composites industry approx 10% so in the grand scheme of things recycling boats isnt really economic hence landfill often being prefered.
RogerJolly
Well-Known Member
That’s got to be the sensible opinion.
The mouldering wrecks around our club yard are so ugly and depressing though, I hate ‘em. Would love to vent this with a chainsaw, even if it’s just the once, before the reality of it kicks in!
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
Some ( many) years back, two young ‘uns started renovating an old wood mobo at Eastney Cruising Association
In full view of the ferry/ harbour entrance car park they renamed it in large letters.. VIAGRA
Rising from the dead
I think they did too
In full view of the ferry/ harbour entrance car park they renamed it in large letters.. VIAGRA
Rising from the dead
I think they did too
winch2
Well-Known Member
I have first hand experience of this sorry stuff, Back in the late 60's dad home built a SCOD in the drive, took him 6 years. He made a fine job of it and we went on to sail it for the next 40 years. But could we sell it after he died? Not really. I couldn't look after it so ended up giving it away for pennies to a guy who subsequently dumped it up a creek where it remains to this day.
It was strip plank built, very strong and dry as a nut... not a drop of brine did pass any seams. Some people thght it was glass fibre the finish was so smooth, but without any official certification it was effectively just a pile of firewood. Pity.
It was strip plank built, very strong and dry as a nut... not a drop of brine did pass any seams. Some people thght it was glass fibre the finish was so smooth, but without any official certification it was effectively just a pile of firewood. Pity.
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mrming
Well-Known Member
We’re one of those cruising families with our kids. Last summer we actually met another family with kids the same age as ours. Only that one time mind you. Most other people we meet are retired couples or solo sailors. Interesting thread with lots of reasons given for the decline of new small boat sales in the UK, and young people getting into boats at all. The main ones that stand out to me are:
- Cost of living and always connected nature of modern work reduce time and money
- If we’re talking about a family, both partners work, childcare is shared, project or maintenance time is limited for a cheaper boat
- Unless they grew up with sailing family members, younger people don’t even give boating a thought as a potential hobby
- A minor point is we are currently poorer than our near neighbours where those small new boats are getting sold
I do think the explosion of sailing YouTubers has created some fresh demand, but of a slightly different kind. Young people inspired by those videos see a boat as a way to travel and live a different lifestyle. It’s a project so they’ll save to buy a boat, fix and equip and take off on an adventure. Some of the seaworthy older boats may find a new life doing this.
oldbloke
Well-Known Member
They're all doing it interesting Med with guaranteed sunshine
ridgy
Well-Known Member
Not that many. Have you seen the price of med charter these days? Absolutely eye watering, we have a share in something older for minimal cost for us but no normal families eg public sector workers are chartering yachts in the med.