Wetsuit advice

[Avocet]

I loathe wet suits with a passion. Nothing worse than trying to get into a cold, damp, smelly wet suit. Plastic bags help to slide arms and legs in place. I've never worn one in a dinghy but imagine that something windproof would need to be worn over it to prevent chill. Not my idea of fun.

A thousand times better is to buy a dry suit. Warm, dry, comfortable.

A middle aged, fuller figure bloke brings images of a beached whale to mind.

It's true, I'm unlikely to look my best in neoprene. However, if there are beaches involved and no dinghy nearby, it will be an indicator of bigger problems, I fear!

 

[Avocet]

Wetsuits can be quite specific to the sport you're using them for. A wetsuit for surfing would be different to one for diving, or sailing f'rinstance.

A suit with glued, blindstitched and taped seams would be warmer than one with overlocked or flat locked seams. And generally more expensive. A backzip is easiest to get in and out of - check there is something to restrict the flow of water in the zip. Anything that reduces the amount of water into the suit makes it warmer (hence CM's comment about not pissing in it).

a 3mm thick suit would be suitable for summer, a 4mm/3mm (described as 4/3) is good for autumn and summer, and 5mm is typical for winter. 5mm suits with 3 or 4mm arms and 3mm under arms would be most comfortable if you're doing anything that requires a lot of movement.

Forget about the brand and model. Fit is all important, It should fit comfortably, not dig in the crotch or under the arms. Bend and touch your toes - you should still be able to breath without being strangled. There shouldn't be a loud of spare material at the small of your back either. Make sure the arms and legs are not too long.

A tip for trying them on is to use a polythene carrier bag. Put your foot in the bag and pull the suit on as high as it will go. Pull the bag off and repeat with the other foot. You shouldn't need it for your arms.

Don't use talc. Wash it in fresh water after every use, and hang it right side out to dry on a hanger

Not sure I could touch my toes and still breathe these days - even without the wetsuit!

 

[Avocet]

If you have megabucks there's sharkskin, which is much more comfy and dries quicker TITANIUM Chillproof Long Sleeve Full Zip - Mens

Definitely don't have megabucks - Avocet sees to that! However, middle son's Pico spends a lot of time idle and the lakes tend to stay tolerably (for a few hours sailing at least) warm until the end of November. Quite happy in a shorts and T shirt in the Summer, but in the Summer, Avocet is afloat and that's better than dinghy sailing. Just wanted to eke another month or so out of the season.

 

[Avocet]

If you have never worn a wetsuit for dinghy sailing, perhaps don’t criticise what you don’t know about.
And cared for properly (often rinsed in the shower, and always dried after use) there is no need for a wetsuit to be cold, damp or smelly.

Dry suits also have their uses, but unless got the right one (often expensive) they can be less agile in some dinghy sailing situations. Wet suit or dry suit needs to be chosen carefully to match the type of water activity.

That's a bit worrying - "agile" isn't a word often applied to me at the best of times!

 

[Avocet]

How long do you go out for and how often do you end up in the water?
Spending hours at a time in a wetsuit and only going in the lake on say 1 in 6 outings, the wearing might be more uncomfortable than the dunking!

Fair point. It's a Laser Pico, so not much freeboard. I don't "plan" on getting dunked, but I'm thinking that maybe it will be windier later in the year and the dunkings will be more frequent. Launching inevitably involves getting wet up to the knees - maybe thighs anyway. I'd only go out for a few hours at a time.

 

[Moodysailor]

The physics is perfectly clear: air has a lower thermal conductivity than water, period.

I whacked it into Google and the first link that came up was this which explains it in simple terms (You can find more scholarly articles if you wish):
Debunking a Common Wetsuit Myth – Appalachian Mountain Club

Your second sentence is also wrong, "Wetsuits insulate by the air trapped in the neoprene, but the warmth is generated by the moist layer between the suit and skin."

Better manufacturers only use nitrogen-cell neoprene for its thermal (secondary) and other physical properties.

Not sure why I am biting, but OK.

The clue is in the title, it's a wet-suit. There is no myth about the way they work, here is the information directly from a manufacturer.

How Wetsuits Work

You are free to believe what you want, but it is incorrect to state that wetsuits work by keeping out water - they are designed, and intended to do the opposite.

But I'm sure the op understands that, and their question was regarding what wetsuit to get, not a technical discussion on how they work, so my apologies.

 

[TSB240]

I experienced autumn lake sailing fir too many years initially in peter storm light weight completely non water proof coveralls and a kapok life jacket and an extra thick arran jumper.
The development of stitch your own wet suits and lighter weight windproof and water proof tops made things marginally better. I finally gave in to buying all the required layers including merino wool thermals and a dry suit. Great for the ice breaker series but not very bladder friendly if you have a three race back to back open meeting......
I would revert to a wetsuit on those occasions and flush with a hosepipe as soon as ashore.

 

[Daydream believer]

deleted

 

[dunedin]

Fair point. It's a Laser Pico, so not much freeboard. I don't "plan" on getting dunked, but I'm thinking that maybe it will be windier later in the year and the dunkings will be more frequent. Launching inevitably involves getting wet up to the knees - maybe thighs anyway. I'd only go out for a few hours at a time.

Sounds like the ideal boat for using a wetsuit for late season sailing. You will get wet both launching and sailing, even if don’t tip in.
I certainly wouldn’t sail a Laser in the Autumn or Winter in northern Uk without one (very differnt playing in the Med in the summer).
PS. If serious winter sailing a dry suit might be worth investing in, but would need to ensure it is one designed specifically for a hiking dinghy, and will be more expensive.

 

[jdc]

I've just had a wetsuit made for me by these guys, recommended. But you need to define what it's for (surfing or open-water swimming for instance - this firm doesn't do ones for diving). Given that wetsuits are supposed to be a good fit all round I don't see how one could use one off the peg and expect it to fit properly: mine never have hence going for a custom one.

 

[dom]

The clue is in the title, it's a wet-suit. There is no myth about the way they work, here is the information directly from a manufacturer.
How Wetsuits Work
You are free to believe what you want, but it is incorrect to state that wetsuits work by keeping out water - they are designed, and intended to do the opposite.

I never said wetsuits work by keeping the water out!

And of course they work by restricting the flow of cooling water - as your link correctly says.

What I said was a dry wetsuit works better than a wet one. Which is correct.

Sorry!

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I was wondering if someone could give me a few pointers on the purchase of a wetsuit, please? I've never worn one before and know nothing about them, but as the weather starts to turn Autumnal, my thought was that I might be able to extend my dinghy season a little, here in the Lakes.

I'm a middle-aged bloke with a "fuller figure", (as the euphemism goes). Fashion is less important than comfort and warmth!

I am short and fat. I wear a 5mm thick wet suit for winter dinghy sailing. Off the peg from Lomo Lomo It was only about £40 quid a few years ago. I wear a dinghy smock over it when sailing bit nothing from the waste down except the wet suit. It works well, is more flexible than I thought but I am not racing, just cruising. After sailing it gets washed in a the washing machine, cold water, delicates, no soap, no spin. The blurb on line says that they must not be put in a washing machine, but I disagree. By the time I bumble about, fall about, sail the dinghy, it gets a lot of abuse, so a washing machine is a piece of cake for it.

 

[LiftyK]

Modern wetsuits are wonderful. They’ll keep you warm and don’t let in a load of water should you be immersed. I used to have made to measure suits but modern materials stretch so much there’s no need for a custom suit. So says Mr Second Skin, who once made a wetsuit for Prince Charles.

The main decision, in my humble opinion, is whether to go for a model with a conventional rear vertical zip or one with a short horizontal zip across the chest. I used to have rear zip models but now I am converted to the the front horizontal zip type as they never let in water. If you’ve not met the latter, you‘ll be baffled how on earth your (and my) ample figure could ever fit through the seemingly tiny gap. It works.

Front horizontal zip: takes longer to put on but keeps you drier. Just be patient and you’ll soon be zipped up and feeling invincible in cold water. Rear vertical zip: quicker to don but more prone to cold water ingress when you take the plunge.

Tip: I don’t find it hard to don my front horizontal zip type over my fuller figure. If you do, apply inexpensive baby shampoo to your skin before donning and you will slip in without fuss.

Contrary to advice already posted, I find that the more you pay, the better the the stretch and hence fit. A good fit means no baggy pockets where excess water can accumulate. My favourite brands: C-skin, Excel.

 

[alan_d]

It is one of the mysteries of this of this forum that people argue acrimoniously without realising that they fundamentally agree.

 

[ronsurf]

The less water that gets into a wetsuit the better. They trap a layer of water between the wetsuit and the skin because it's dificult to keep the water out, and it warms up. It doesn't 'keep you warm' because the wetsuit does that. The less often this layer of water is replaced by fresh water getting in and needing to be heated up again, the better. Therefore, the less water that gets in, the warmer you will be for longer.

If the seams are properly sealed, most water gets in through the zip. Some suits have baffles to reduce this and some have no zips at all. Both my winter and summer suits are like this. The winter one for warmth and the summer one for increased flexibility (I used to need it).

Dry suits aren't 'better', they work in a completely different way, The suit doesn't keep you warm, the insulating layer does that. The dry suit's sole function is to keep ALL the water out so the insulating layer can insulate. If the insulating layer gets wet, it doesn't keep you warm at all. They are less comfortable than a wetsuit and better suited for less active activities.

So for diving and full immersion into cold water, a drysuit may be a better choice. For surfing and swimming a wetsuit is a better choice. Trying to surf or swim in a drysuit would be very difficult. Deep diving in a wetsuit would be foolish.

Dinghy sailing in a wetsuit would be OK, if you knew you would get wet a lot. The trouble with a wetsuit is the wind chill can be quite noticeable and can cool the outside of the suit once it's wet. This is less of a problem if you're in the water a lot. There are some wetsuits that have a smooth skin on the body that sheds water and prevents the cooling by evaporation effect. The smooth skin is not as hard wearing, though. Another solution if you only get wet occasionally is to wear a light nylon jacket over the top that helps shed the water, and stop the wind chill.

A benefit of a wetsuit is the added buoyancy it can provide from a layer of air around your body. A dry suit does this too - the suit offers no buoyancy but the air trapped in it does. It's a problem if you're under water and all the air is in your feet, of course.

I've never worn a drysuit, but many friends who dive have. They look very bulky and you wouldn't want to tear it. Other options could be something like a long john or even a vest under your clothing so if you get a dunking you won't get so chilled. Even a neoprene kidney belt would help.

Expensive suits use more expensive neoprene. The more expensive neoprene is more stretchy (some of it a LOT more stretchy), but they are nowhere near as durable. I would expect a stretchy neoprene suit to last about a year for a serious surfer. Typically the neoprene collapses around the knees. By comparison you can easily get 2 - 3 years out of a suit made with less stretchy rubber.

I believe most of the suits available in the UK are all made in one factory. Most suits are pretty similarly priced for the same features. I would suggest a budget of £100-£150 for a branded suit. Pre-COVID I was amazed how good a suit you could buy for that money, whether that is still true I don't know.

Custom suits are available - there was a time when they were pretty much your only option if you wanted something that fitted well. But neoprenes got better, the designs and the sizing got better and I've not needed a custom suit for many years. I shudder to think what they cost these days.

Rip Curl make/made a wetsuit (The A Bomb, i think it was called) that had pockets for heat packs to slide into around the kidney area. These were either those heat packs that you push the button and the heat up and go hard, or i think they had a battery powered heater thing as well. Never seen one for sale, ever. Not sure they even really existed outside of a magazine ad.

One suggestion is to have a look at Wetsuit Outlet and see what style of suit they suggest for dinghy sailing. Definitely get some boots - note that these go inside the wetsuit legs. Yet another reason not to piss in your wetsuit - it all ends up in your boots and they really stink.

 

[Daydream believer]

On the many occassions that i have worn a wet suit it has not always resulted in water actually getting into the upper half of the suit.
So the suggestion that it needs water to warm the body is partly debunked (just my opinion) However, I nearly always take it off & it is wet inside. That is due to perspiration. we all know that with a lot of activity the body does sweat a great deal. So, if forumites are suggesting that this is water, then they are perhaps correct. However, I have dinghy sailed for years & I do not fully accept that one needs water in the suit to keep warm. I did actually manage to sail my Phantom without capsizing; but i did wear an outer waterproof vest, generally to protect an expensive custom wetsuit & to hold the buoyancy aid in place & avoid snagging by giving me a cleaner outline. Even in the polar series I rarely suffered from the cold.

One other comment about looks. I am tall with most of my height in the legs. I felt conscious of my looks in a wetsuit, having the "Max Wall" effect when wearing the splash top etc. I managed to reduce this by having "Second Skin" logos written down each leg. Result worked well

 

[dankilb]

It’s less a matter of technical debate, as GBS chest zip suits undoubtedly ‘trap’ heat in very well - I speak as someone who occasionally surfs in the NE in winter, where we’re immersed for a few hours at a time…

The point is more whether the features of wetsuit offer any advantages when dry (apart from protecting against the risk of immersion). I’d say Pico sailing is a good potential candidate for a wetsuit. But if you do manage to stay mostly dry, in a ‘good’ (branded, GBS, chest zip) suit, you’ll be bloody hot and uncomfortable by the end.

Wetsuits don’t need water to work. They’ll cook you fantastically well in the dry (and remembering the sun and air temp and can tease us at the end of the season)! But really, their advantages are only felt when immersed.

As someone who doesn’t regularly dinghy sail, I’m loathe to give advice myself. Many of the recommendations above would certainly be good for surfing! But I might be looking instead at thinner neoprene base later (or a 2mm long John suit) with lightweight waterproofs on top.

The lightweight dry suits made for SUP etc. are great (as you can wear wicking base layers - or whatever you want - underneath). But I think a Pico cockpit would rip them to shreds (they really are light/thin - and not cheap).

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Front or back zip. I have had both. Front zip is easier, currently have back zip, which requires a good stretch to pull up and I have twisted and twanged my shoulder muscles doing it up in the past, easy with assistance. Back zips come with a long cord to help. I prefer the back zip as it makes the front smooth and stretchable over my moobs and dome belly and doesn’t dig in when bent forward, which I have noticed with the front zips wetsuit.