Westwater Yacht Sales Expensive Storage

[beneteau_305_553]

I put my yacht up for sale with these Brokers in July 2002 as they offered 6 months free storage at Titchmarsh Marina.

Westwater eventually found a potential buyer but the sale fell through as they wanted me to drop the price a further £3000 after the surveys had been completed and the sale verbally agreed. This was 6 weeks after the end of the six months free period. I then changed my mind and decided to keep the yacht.

Westwater then told me that as the boat was being withdrawn from sale I had to pay over £1000 storage charges. The contract for the free storage stated that storage charges were only due if the boat was withdrawn from sale, unsold, during the 6 month free period. I disputed the charge but was told that I had to pay and Titchmarsh Marina would not launch the boat till I had paid in full! (Both companies are I believe owned by Chris Titchmarsh)

I started a claim in the Norwich County Court against Titchmarsh Marina to get the boat launched. They finally admitted they were wrong and eventually launched the boat. They continued to issue invoices for storage for the period that they refused to launch the boat and I took them to court again to get them to stop issuing these demands. The court told Titchmarsh to stop this action and to stop wasting the courts time. At both these hearings Titchmarsh was represented by their solicitors and a barrister. I represented myself.

Following this judgement, on the same day, Westwater instructed their solicitors to start a claim against me for the original disputed storage charges! This was contested at Norwich County Court again. At the hearing the Judge agreed with me that the storage was free and the case was dismissed.

If anyone knows of anybody who is using Westwater Yacht Sales I would be happy to hear from them, perhaps I can help them from being incorrectly charged for storage. I would also like to hear from anybody who has actually paid storage for the "free period" as this judgement means that they could get their money returned, and possible compensation.

Westwater Yacht Sales have issued many invoices, statements and letters demanding payment for this free storage, threatened my family and me, in writing, twice with debt collectors and have contacted committee members of my yacht club accusing me not paying mooring fees and they also contacted the local Volvo dealers telling them that I do not pay my debts!

The time and cost involved in contesting this storage invoice has been significant and I think most people wouldn't have taken them on, as Westwater and Titchmarsh marina are not short of financial resources.

Westwater and Titchmarsh are not members of any brokers or marina association although they use a photocopy of an old version of the association of yacht brokers sellers and buyers contracts. If they were I could have asked the association to arbitrate.

Brokers and Marinas should not get away with service like this.

Send a pm


<hr width=100% size=1>Richard<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by beneteau_305_553 on 24/09/2004 21:28 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[tcm]

Re: service like this

er, but they did look after the boat for six months free of charge, no? Then, you decided not to sell. This sounds a bit like walking into a restaurant, scoffing the free bread, then deciding against having a meal. Well done for getting free berthing for a while anyway!


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[Greg2]

Sounds outrageous - thought they were all very nice when we visited last month, I guess appearances can be deceptive.

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[beneteau_305_553]

Re: service like this

Westwater Yacht Sales offered the six months free storage to get some boats onto their brokerage list as had only been trading for a short while. They still have some learning to do for customer relations!

<hr width=100% size=1>Richard

 

[tcm]

Re: customer relations

um like lower the customer's expectations i suppose. We once did something for free, and the next time (when it wsn't free) they went ape.

Anyway, the Judge says you win. He's the one you needed to convince, not me.

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[summerstarf37]

I have my boat up for sale with them, and reading through the agreement it says;

Any vessel displayed on our sales site will be offered 3 months free storage, by discretion, with a further (free) 3 months by negotiation.

It then says;

If the vessel is withdrawn from sale, sold privately or removed unsold from the sales site, Westwater Yacht Sales Ltd storage charges will be applied from date of arrival.

With this is mind if I decided to keep my boat and not sell it surely this would be classed as being withdrawn and I would pay storage.

We sold our previous boat "Boomer" through them and after 5 months (admittedly I did drop the price after 3 months) they sold it and all I paid was the commision. Perhaps I'm biased as I also bought Summer Star through them and all I can say is from my point of view it was a professional service which gave me no cause for concern and no sleepless nights - unlike F**'s.........

Incidently why did they want you to reduce the price £3000 to get the sale? was anything shown up in survey?

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[duncan]

sounds to me that they screwed up on the wording of their offer; against their intentions. This happens.
However this does not entitle them to recover from you - as the judge says.
I would expect them to change their wordings in due course - if they haven't already done so.
The impact on people caught up in these things is significant as you point out and, given that their actions aren't malicious I trust that both Volvo and your yacht club have been advised of their previous error by Titchmarsh?

<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Lozzer]

I have had boats moored at Ticthmarsh marina for 18 years and know Chris personally. I have always found Chris to be very approachable and he has always been extremely helpful to me and my friends.

I am sorry that you have had a bad experience of them but even sadder that they portrayed you in a bad light to your yacht club and Volvo agent.

Still you had the last laugh...

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[burgundyben]

The buying and selling lark sounds like such a fag I think I'll keep mine, seems the esiest solution.

<hr width=100% size=1>My house is for sale, 2 beds, Hamble.

 

[andy_wilson]

Terms and Conditions

If Westwater are not members of ABYA os YBDSA, what do the relevant associations have to say about use of the standard terms on the contract, let alone the 'sponsorship' situation that appears to exist?

"LISTING AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE BROKER AND THE OWNER OF A SECOND HAND YACHT/BOAT"

"SPONSORED BY THE ASSOCIATION OF BROKERS & YACHT AGENTS AND THE YACHT BROKERS, DESIGNERS & SURVEYORS ASSOCIATION"

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[beneteau_305_553]

The agreement I had with them stated :

"If the vessel is withdrawn from sale or removed unsold from the sales site during the free period, Westwater Yacht Sales storage charges will be applied from the date of arrival on site."

When I signed it I thought this quite reasonable and fully expected to pay storage after six months if the boat had not sold.

However, as the boat was not withdrawn from sale during the 6 months free period, storage charges were not due but they refused to accept this. I even sent them a cheque for the storage after the six months but this was returned un-cashed. They claimed that they could extend the free period past the six months and thus charge me for the storage for the whole period if ever I decided to withdraw the boat from sale.

Four weeks later the boat was effectively impounded as Titchmarsh refused to launch it until I paid in full.

I was irritated initially by Westwater for the way they handled the potential sale. After six months they found a buyer who offered £3000 less than the asking price, subject to survey. After the surveys I agreed to a further reduction of £2000 to allow for an overhaul on the engine. 2 weeks later when I was waiting for the cheque to arrive I was phoned by Westwater to tell me that the new owners had had the engine removed and stripped down and were being advised that it would be better to have a new engine than overhaul the existing one and they wanted me to reduce my price by a further £2000. I refused and was left with a boat with the engine removed and in bits on the floor.

Westwater had failed to get a signature on the sales contract so the new owners pulled out and Westwater returned the deposit, less the survey and launch and recovery charges for the seatrial, to the buyers.

I claimed this was wrong and the deposit should have been paid to me but I got nowhere they just said that as the sale hadn’t been completed I wasn't due for the deposit.

They then issued the invoice for the storage charges from the date of arrival rather than from the end of the six months.

At a meeting with their Ms Bromley I offered to negotiate but they refused saying they would take me in court if I didn't pay.


<hr width=100% size=1>Richard

 

[Its_Only_Money]

I would have thought the yard were liable for the costs associated with restoring the vessel to its prior condition if they allowed the owner to strip the engine out/down prior to legal completion of the sale - unless such a stripdown was stated to be part of the survey - if so I would have expected the stripdown (and restore) costs of the engine to be clearly born by the (potential) buyer. Try stating YOU will be claiming for these costs.....

<hr width=100% size=1>Rgds

Simon
Its Only Money
Fairline Sprint
Solent-based

 

[tcm]

Re:Blimey!

flippinek, well it does seem to be badly handled, and i withdraw my earlier snidey comments. Engine in bits and not sold is a right mismanaged mess.

My only *slight* sarkiness now is reserved for the fact that this is on several forums, rather than just one. But anyway, good luck.




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[penfold]

Surely if the buyer has had an engine removed and dismantled without your permission it qualifies as criminal damage? At the very least he should be liable for reinstating the original engine. Very odd.

cheers,
David

<hr width=100% size=1>I? I am Kaptain Kaos, and this is my faithful companion, Kato. Say hello Kato! Been a cop long?

 

[ari]

As above, if the boat remained your property as sale had not proceeded then what right has a third party to order work to be done, or the broker to allow it?

At the very least the deposit should have been held by the broker until the boat was returned to its previous state (ie engine complete and running).

Quite a remarkable state of affairs.

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[summerstarf37]

Something strange about this story..............

When I bought Summer Star and put a deposit I was made to sign an agreement to purchase and statement of clients account, which basically said that my deposit was only refundable upon confirmation of a material defect (of which a shagged engine would qualify) and prior to a refund all additional costs are met and the craft reinstated to as was.

With my previous boat sold through Westwater, someone offered full asking subject to an engine survey which I believed was done by Volspec (previously I had confirmed that I didn't want a certain chain of engineers beginning with F anywhere near my boat and was told that all works were done through pre approved surveyors and engineers and those not known needed to be vetted and show qualifications and PLI docs and things) Throughout this Westwater held the deposit until the purchaser was satisfied.

I can't believe that you would get your boat back in bits - if this is the case why did you only go to court over storage charges and not for damage to the boat? Was the engine running in the first place or was it stuffed when you put the boat up for sale?

It might just be me - but maybe we should reserve judgement on this one guys, as they say there are always two sides to every story.

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[beneteau_305_553]

There is nothing strange about this story.

The engine ran fine when taken there. They had problems starting it for the seatrial which was carried out in December , as I believe they did not know the cold start proceedure for a Volvo 2002 ( pull out the stop lever before starting ) Once started the engine ran fine. However a engine survey did reveal low compression in one cylinder. This is why I accepted a reduction of £2000 for an engine overhaul which was quoted by a Volvo Dealer.

In fact I did take my boat back in bits. I was angry at how I had been treated and then to be invoiced for these storage charges and having the boat impounded were just too much.

I wait to hear from Westwater and Titchmarsh marina on this forum to put their side of the case. The County Court has agreed with my case at every stage.

I am glad other people have had good experience with these brokers but I leave it to others to decide whether I have been fairly treated.

<hr width=100% size=1>Richard

 

[beneteau_305_553]

Re:Blimey!

Thanks for your post.

I placed posts on three forums to try to inform as many users of boats as possible now that the court case has finished and the County Court Judgements are in the public domain.

Sorry if its a bit excessive.





<hr width=100% size=1>Richard

 

[Lozzer]

Re:Blimey!

something is very fishy..... I cant believe that someone would take your engine apart without your approval? It would be illegal. The engine would not do it without permission so who gave him permission. Once you have answered that then you can sort that person out.

Marlin spike meet rectum, rectum meet marlin spike. They wont do it again then.

I have to say that Titchmarsh Marina when having screwed up in the past have always come out tops for me. Perhaps that is down tot he way we treat them. One one occassion they dropped the mast on the 36' sailing yacht I used to part own. Without quibble they replaced it for a brand new one. No questions they just got on with it.

Now they have engineers they could have rebuilt your engine at almost zero cost? with us they HAD to spend money. so I would have thought that they would have created more of a fuss.

I have sent this thread to Titchmarsh, lets see if they comment.

I wait with baited breath....

Come on Chris lets here your side of the story after all it isnt subjudicy anymore.

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[beneteau_305_553]

Re:Blimey!

We are still holding our breath for a response from either Westwater or Titchmarsh Marina.





<hr width=100% size=1>Richard