Well worth it!

[Scaramoosh]

Halon Fire Extinguishers

OOPs!!!!!It could be

The owning of Halon became illegal on the 1st of January this year under I think the Montreal Protocol as its a major Greenhouse Gas.

While I sure your system would work in the event of a fire, you would be liable for the release of the gas and your insurance company would have an escape clause in that you had failed to fit an approved system

It could be a bit expensive

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[andrewa]

Re: Halon Fire Extinguishers

I had my last boat changed in the UK from Halon, I am flying out for a weeks boating on Saturday morning will check if same applies in the US my insurance just states that I must have an approved fire suppression system installed checked yearly. But thanks for your post.

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[jhr]

Just realised that I've more or less duplicated what Brendan said 5 minutes before me but I'll leave the post up, because it warrants saying twice.

To revert to a less contentious element of the thread, from what several people have said, they'd be up for a "Marine Petrol Engines for Lunkheads" course if it were to be on offer (me, too). I wonder how many participants Sea Start would need for it to be worth their while running (and, more to the point, spending time developing) such a course?

Just a thought.

<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho

 

[BarryH]

Dear Sirs,

Just like to add, If petrol was so damn dangerous why do the yanks with their "sue them for the sake of it" culture still produce so many?
Im not going to say anymore becuase the comment is going to be treated with the contempt it deserves.

Yours Faithfully
Barry, oh my god my boats about to blow, H

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[abraxus]

Exactly Barry,

There's nothing wrong with with petrol in boats. In fact if Petrol were a third the price of diesel and the engines more economical, I'm sure many of those that say they would never have it on a boat of theirs would rapidly change their minds and re-think their attitudes.

Bill

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[SlowlyButSurely]

I'll have the final word then. My original comment was:

"Not really very surprising as there are not that many boats with petrol engines and by definition people who have petrol engines are not very interested in things like safety and self-sufficiency etc. "

All other things being equal, petrol engines are:

1. Less reliable than diesel engines.
2. More of a fire hazard than diesel engines.

QED.


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[BrendanS]

your repeating your rubbish again! Why are petrol boater less self sufficient or less safety concious

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

OK, maybe it wasn't worded very well. Let me put it another way.
Here are some criteria for an engine: performance, quietness, reliability, safety, economy

The petrol engine man might put them in this order of priority:
1. Performance
2. Quietness
3. Reliability
4. Safety
5. Economy

Whereas the diesel man might put them in this order:
1. Safety
2. Reliability
3. Performance
4. Economy
5. Quietness

I know this is all a bit subjective and many people have ended up with petrol engines because they found that they could buy the same boat at half the price, but if this is not roughly right, why would anyone buy a petrol engine?

I am interested in this issue, having owned a petrol engined boat myself for 8 years, so would like to hear your views.


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[Its_Only_Money]

Obviously we all have different priorities otherwise we'd all drive the same make/model of boat!

Not sure where you are going with this, if "buying a boat at 1/2 the price" is No 1 priority why isn't "economy" No1 for the hypothetical petrol owner???

Or do you somehow separate in your mind fuel cost and boat cost and have no concept of total cost of ownership???

There was a short piece in the current PBO where it stated that petrol engined boats are 3 times as likely to catch fire as a diesel boat (the piccie was of a yacht ), personally I was surprised it was that close but to suggest as you seem to that you can almost totally avoid fire just by having a diesel engine is patently a false assumption.

Looking on the US Recreational Boat Building Industry site: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rbbi.com/folders/acc/acc.htm>http://www.rbbi.com/folders/acc/acc.htm</A>

There is a table (this is US, ie more petrol orientated than the UK) that indicates that there were 6 fatalities due to fire/explosion between 1990-1994 whereas there were 210 fatalities in the same period due to falling/falling overboard (where I would assume type of fuel is probably not a factor). These are USCG figures.

My conclusion: There are other risks of boating more worth worrying about - although any owner should take appropriate precautions according to the equipment (not just engine) fitted to his vessel.

Incidentally, anyone know how Halon is a greenhouse gas when it is heavier-than-air???

<hr width=100% size=1>Rgds

Simon
Its Only Money
Fairline Sprint
Solent-based

 

[itsonlymoney]

My oh my you have let the cat amongst the pigeons.
Reading through I find most replies have been made. I will therefore only point out that most of us go cruising with our wives and children and would not put them at undue risk. we therefore have our engines regularly serviced, we keep a clean engine bay and decent fire extinguishers. We allways put our blowers on 5 mins or so before firing her up. Therefore there is no reason why petrol boats should be any more dangerous than deisels.
Ian

<hr width=100% size=1>Play the best game you can with the cards you've been dealt ! ! !

 

[BarryH]

Now your just talking bollocks, take the blinkers off and look at the bigger picture.

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[jhr]

My last word o n the subject

Horses for courses. For smaller sports boats, a petrol unit has power/weight advantages (though less than used to be the case) and a significantly lower price than its diesel equivalent. The relative differences in price and performance, at this end of the market, mean that petrol wins out in most aspects over diesel. Like so much else, it's a question of weighing up relative risks, like I said earlier. For both Petrol and Diesel powered boats, the risk of fire, particularly in a properly maintained craft with appropriate extinguishing and ventilation capability, is so small as to be an irrelevance.

If you're so worried about risk, perhaps you should think about the dangers of going out to sea in a small boat at all? Pure folly!

<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho

 

[ShipsWoofy]

er...... Ford Pinto


<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>All New website

 

[abraxus]

To put it into perspective, based on US Coast Guard figures for 2003, where I suspect there are a larger number of petrol boats.

Over 12 million registered boats in 2003.

In total there were 5438 registered accidents, of which 143 or 2.6% were as a result of fire or explosion of fuel. Resulting in 7 fatalities (1%, out of a total of 703 deaths or 5% of instances of fire/explosion).

Drowning on the other hand was the cause of 68% of the deaths (481 of the 703). 416 of those killed did not wear a lifejacket.

Therefore under whatever circumstances, whether sitting at the dock, idling through the marina, or cruising at sea, you are 68 times more likely to die by drowning. If at ALL times when on board you or your crew/guests are not wearing a lifejacket, you are putting yourself and them at considerably greater risk than being on a petrol powered boat.

Given than 1 in 1.8 million (.00005%) registered boats results in a fire or explosion related death compared to 1 in 26,500 for drowning, then I consider a petrol engine way down on the list of safety concerns.

I have also assumed that all fires/explosions were petrol rather than diesel related.

There are many reasons for choosing either a petrol or diesel engine, initial purchase price or after purchase running costs being the primary ones, followed by what's generally available on type/size of boat, especially when buying second hand when engine options don't count. Safety is too small an issue statistically to make a difference unless all other things are equal, which of course they aren't.


Bill



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[Solitaire]

Now that has put things into perspective! At last somebody has come up with some actual stats on the subject rather than just speculation. I've had petrol boats all my boating life until I put the diesel in, and whats more I had an LPG conversion as well. As long as the boat is well maintained with particular attention to the fuel system and electrics there should be no problem having a petrol boat. About 90% of all the instructing ,deliveries and charter work I've done this year has been on petrol boats and there has not been one single incidence of any fuel related/fire risk situation.

Why do I have a diesel? Simple really, economy and currently price. With the petrol engien I may be got 90 nms, with the diesel I get nearly 200 on the same size tank - 40 gals. It certainly wasn't a safety thing that made me change.

<hr width=100% size=1>Boating is <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.powerboattraininguk.co.uk>Serious Fun</A>

 

[lanason]

Or can't afford a new boat !!

<hr width=100% size=1>Adrian <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/kelisha>Kelisha</A> Nothing is better than a Holiday

 

[gonfishing]

Who the hell

are you to make sweeping comments like that. YOU are spoiling for a fight. I personnally find your remarks extremely offensive and many other very responsible petrol boat owners will probably agree.

Julianl

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[BrendanS]

Err, these stats been posted before.... I know this for a fact as I've posted both stats and links before

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni

 

[BarryH]

The Ford Pinto has nothing to do with this argument. The prob with the Pinto was a design fault/cockup where the fuel tank would get ruptured in the event of an impact from the rear. Petrol would be spilt onto a hot exhaust. Ford took the decision not to change it as that would cost more than the resulting payouts in the event of accidents, which turned out a lot less than the redesign......get it right!

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[Solitaire]

Sorry! Your point is? I've not seen them before and they were not put up on this thread by you. I'm certainly not going to trawl thru all your postings to appease your desire to be the font of all Google (or whatever search engine you spend hours rummaging thru) knowledge!

<hr width=100% size=1>Boating is <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.powerboattraininguk.co.uk>Serious Fun</A>