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Pierrome

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Hi All

I'm very interested in starting sailing. One thing puzzles me however. Sailing yachts, even larger ones have no way of steering them from inside. So, whatever the weather, it seems the helmsman must sit outside in the wind and spray at all times.
In any other mode of transport you can sit inside out of the weather.
You wouldn't drive around in an open car in the rain would you!
Aircraft originally had open cockpits, but they reverted to enclosed some time in the 1930's I think.
Is it because yachting clothing manufacturers want to make a lot of money selling protective gear?
 
You're partially wrong.

There are plenty of yachts with deckhouses, pilothouse and wheel shelters. And nowadays there are pretty good autopilots and wind vanes so that the helms person is not required to have a hand on the tiller or wheel 60x60x24.

But the essence of sailing is seeing and trimming to the sails to extract performance, and you can't do that unless you have a clear view of the sails. Glass roofs don't work, so you have to be outside to do that.
 
The purist reason is that when you're inside, or even have a lid to keep the rain off, you can't feel the wind, so can't sail as accurately. A friend is completely blind, but is a better helm just from feeling the wind than I'll ever be. He doesn't have dodgers and, while has a sprayhood, it's alway down when he's helming, whatever the conditions. Also, visibility is bad enough under sail without shutting yourself indoors.

Be that as it may, I suspect that an important reason is that the sailing "image", as marketed, is lounging in the sun with a long cool drink and a long cool blonde. Bad weather never happens, so a boat designed for it won't sell, at least in a mass market.

There are plenty of boats with deck saloons and internal controls, but they do tend to be at the more "serious" end of the market - and often from Scandinavia, where they understand about weather :)
 
Don't leave the marina if it's raining?

Search the brokers for motorsailers, Pilot houses, deck saloons etc, most of which have an indoor steering position for when you are motoring. Some examples are the Southerly range, LM's & Evasions, Konsort Duo, Newbridge Pilot. Lots more if you look.

My boat (a Pentland ketch) has an exposed wheel position, but have fitted a decent sprayhood & a wheel pilot so I don't have to stand in the rain & spray if I want to keep going in bad weather.

Or you could employ a skipper to get wet for you, but if it is a bit stormy, you may not want to be below either - it can be pretty unpleasant down there.

Or get a motorboat, that's what most of the wimps do.:D
 
My boat has the option of internal steering but it is seldom used. In Scotland ,if it rains it is usually cold so you have your full kit on. In the Med. it is usually warm if it rains (at least in Summer) and it doesn't matter.
The interior steering position is used in thunderstorms and sometimes for tricky navigation to be right beside the chartplotter pilots and charts. The main advantage of the deck saloon/pilot house is the great outlook andgood light without the "submarine effect" when you go below in many yachts.
 
Pierrome said:
Hi All
In any other mode of transport you can sit inside out of the weather.
You wouldn't drive around in an open car in the rain would you!
Click to expand...

Motorcycle? Horse? And yes I do sometimes drive my car with the roof off in the rain.

However - to boats. Whilst I'm sure that with some expense and decent technology you could sail a boat from inside, that is not realistic for most sailors. Foir us, you need to be able to get to the sail controls and these are on deck.

Motor sailers dont count as exceptions - I've yet to come across one that could be short tacked up a river wholy from inside the cabin. Most are no more than an inside wheel to steer but most boats on passage are mostly steered by autohelm - where's the advantage in that?
 
How about "Jester"

"Jester" was a boat designed by Blondie Hasler, that you could sail from inside.
Actually, there was no need to go on deck on this boat at any time.
It completed many successful Atlantic crossings.

No doubt the junk rig with which it was fitted helped.

Sadly, this kind of design seems to have been forgotton in favour of the option of sitting outside in the rain and spray, just to get the "feel" of the wind. This is fine on a good day, but masochistic in a storm.
If the feel of the wind is so vital why do we see such advanced wind instruments which tell you everything you need to know about the wind.

It still seems strange to me that buyers would pay sometimes as much as 100,000 for a yacht that you can't even steer from inside.
 
You could always go the cruise liner route and sit indoors and watch the outside world go by, or just take to the armchair with a video?

Even most mobos I notice prefer to drive from the exposed outside flybridge.
 
I'm surprised by the number of new yachts which have a wheel aft with a chartplotter/instruments mounted above it in such a way that it can only be read while standing at the wheel. Lovely for a short trip on a sunny summer day, but what on earth is it like on a blowy night sail. At 3am I want to cower down with some decent shelter, not stand up, completely exposed to the weather.
 
Strange to realize that in 40 odd years of sailing I have never developed any longing for an inside steering position, mind you we were on our fourth boat and nearly thirty years in before we even experienced the luxury of a sprayhood. The thought of helming from inside in extreme weather would frighten the **** out of me. My wife who sails with me most of the time but does not need to be on deck when it is blowing hard and raining will also be happier in the cockpit with occasional jaunts down to the kettle.
One Sunday morning in December a car full of us were on our way to race in the Carrick winter series, the sleet was coming down at about 45 degrees and as we passed the golf course there were two guys on one of the greens. One of the crew in the back said ' My God, would you look at those two eedjits, playing golf on a day like this' Never occured that we might have have been doing something just as daft.
I think its because weather is the very essence of sailing, take it away and it makes absolutely no sense as a pastime.
 
Interesting . . . two new posters with provocative first posts.


Sniff, sniff, aaah, do I smell Troll?

Wingsailor is well informed, Hasler used to boast of wearing slippers while crossing the Atlantic. But while Jester entered every TransAt & completed most of them, her times were, to be charitable, not all that quick. And therein lies the rub, comfy & slow or fast & wet?

There are a few cruising cats that have a bulkhead mounted wheel under a doghouse roof that will be pretty well protected, reasonably quick (with the right wind direction) and sailable. But most sheltered steering positions are only suitable for motoring as I pointed out earlier.
 
Pierrome said:
Hi All

I'm very interested in starting sailing. One thing puzzles me however. Sailing yachts, even larger ones have no way of steering them from inside. So, whatever the weather, it seems the helmsman must sit outside in the wind and spray at all times.
In any other mode of transport you can sit inside out of the weather.
You wouldn't drive around in an open car in the rain would you!
Aircraft originally had open cockpits, but they reverted to enclosed some time in the 1930's I think.
Is it because yachting clothing manufacturers want to make a lot of money selling protective gear?
Click to expand...

Try it, you might like it...
 
Pierrome said:
Hi All

I'm very interested in starting sailing. One thing puzzles me however. Sailing yachts, even larger ones have no way of steering them from inside. So, whatever the weather, it seems the helmsman must sit outside in the wind and spray at all times.
In any other mode of transport you can sit inside out of the weather.
You wouldn't drive around in an open car in the rain would you!
Aircraft originally had open cockpits, but they reverted to enclosed some time in the 1930's I think.
Is it because yachting clothing manufacturers want to make a lot of money selling protective gear?
Click to expand...

I have helmed both inside and outside. Inside is scary to be honest, I can't feel the wind or judge gusts effectively. Looking up through a wet roof window at the mast / sails is a poor substitute for being out there, despite some discomfort at times ;-)
Start sailing dinghies - you'll understand why they are an excellent introduction to sailing once you progress to something bigger.
Yachts are much easier to sail -despite having more rope/sail area/tonnage!
If you don't like the idea of wetsuits / fun / occasional capsizing and righting dinghies- go crewing on yachts - or try an RYA Competent Crew course for an intro?

Graeme
 
pagoda said:
If you don't like the idea of wetsuits / fun / occasional capsizing and righting dinghies- go crewing on yachts - or try an RYA Competent Crew course for an intro?

Graeme
Click to expand...

Well I sail a dinghy and never wear a wetsuit and have never capsized. Been out into the Minch five times already this year, and I don't intend to capsize there.

The downside of starting with a dinghy is that bigger boats do feel a little boring in comparison. :D
 
Pierrome said:
Hi All

I'm very interested in starting sailing. One thing puzzles me however. Sailing yachts, even larger ones have no way of steering them from inside. So, whatever the weather, it seems the helmsman must sit outside in the wind and spray at all times.
In any other mode of transport you can sit inside out of the weather.
You wouldn't drive around in an open car in the rain would you!
Aircraft originally had open cockpits, but they reverted to enclosed some time in the 1930's I think.
Is it because yachting clothing manufacturers want to make a lot of money selling protective gear?
Click to expand...

Hey in order for us to help guide you please provide,

Age?
Male/Female?
Other sports your already into?
 
Robwhelton said:
Well I sail a dinghy and never wear a wetsuit and have never capsized. Been out into the Minch five times already this year, and I don't intend to capsize there.

The downside of starting with a dinghy is that bigger boats do feel a little boring in comparison. :D
Click to expand...

All dinghies fall over sometimes....??
You're either not trying hard enough or have better ballast distribution than me :-D

and yes bigger boats seem tame at times...
 
pagoda said:
All dinghies fall over sometimes....??
You're either not trying hard enough or have better ballast distribution than me :-D

and yes bigger boats seem tame at times...
Click to expand...

Well yeah we've taken it in green many a time but not quite gone over yet... and sailing around these parts you need a big safety margin. The boat sails faster when it's flatter anyway. I suppose one of these days I'll get carried away and over I go...
 
At least you have a Gulf Stream... I sail (dinghies) mainly at Montrose, where 5-4-3 suits still struggle with water temperature until at least August.
I recall windsurfing between Barra and Fuday once in May and being shocked by the lack of ice-floes ;-)..... it was almost tropical!

Graeme
 
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