Waterproof jackets.

AndrewB

AndrewB

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This morning I tested the various jackets I use for sailing by standing 10 mins under the shower in each in turn. Results, in order of age:
1. Danfellows. Heavy duty, gortex liner. 29 years old. Waterproof except for right cuff.
2. Musto HPX (wife's). Heavy duty, gortex liner. 21 years old. Completely waterproof even with some delamination.
3. Karrimor. Light duty, mesh liner. 4 years old. Slight leak left shoulder and cuffs.
3. Helly Hansen Performance. Medium, quilted liner. 1 year old. Leak both shoulders, and through front zip.
4. Regatta Great Outdoors (wife's). Light duty, mesh liner. 1 year old. Completely waterproof.

To be fair, the last three are 'outdoor' rather than 'sailing' jackets, used for fair-weather sailing. It's a remarkable result for the two older jackets, given how worn they now are, but not so good for the Helly Hansen, which has only been used a couple of times.
 
I've been a user of Regatta gear for many years ... first of all because I only sailed in Solent in fair weather and their gear being on the light side was more than enough.
When I met the present now wife - I bought both of us the combination Regatta jackets where the inner fleece can be unzipped and each used separately.
That was in about 2005 ... so 20yrs later we still have them ... but the waterproofing is basically Showers only ... if steady heavy rain - it starts to seep through. I do have waterproofing fluid but TBH ... they are still good enough for general use when not heavy rain.

I've just bought a jacket / salopette set : Tribord Adventure - Coastal. Lightweight - but so far proven windproof and waterproof .. and half the cost of 'upmarket' brands of similar weight ..

I did buy a 2nd hand HH jacket last year - but the sizing on the online page was in error ... so gave it to wife ... TBH - when I opened the package - condition is near new ... but I was not impressed with it overall. Wife says its not comfortable to wear !

I appreciate that extended time out there and various weather - decent Offshore gear is called for ... and that usually in this market - price can indicate better quality ....
 
AndrewB said:
This morning I tested the various jackets I use for sailing by standing 10 mins under the shower in each in turn. Results, in order of age:
Click to expand...
Well done. Nice to know that the old stuff works well. Years ago, I was racing in Southampton on a very cold winters morning and my Musto waterproofs leaked at the seams. They postponed the start for an hour and by the time the race finished, I was becoming hypothermic. It was a very scary incident.
 
I'm missing sailing too right now, but not quite enough to don my foulies and stand under a cold shower 🤔

Joking aside, it's quite a good idea - better than finding out when you actually need them 👍
 
Most leaks are the result of seam tape coming loose. Often you can iron the existing tape back down. Get a cheap travel iron, because glue will come off on the iron. If that doesn't work, buy replacement tape and re-tape the offending seams.

It is seldom the fabric that is leaking, until everything else is gone.

The other trouble spots are from hangers (shoulders) and hooks (front of the hood or somewhere in the collar). If there is a hanging tab, hang from that.

For this and for other reasons, I prefer jackets with no liner. Hard to dry, hard to pull on if damp.
 
It's a weird topic.

Obviously Gore-Tex can be very waterproof. I have a Gore-Tex drysuit. Obviously, Gore-Tex (or any breathable and truly waterproof membrane) is not breathable when fully wet (think really pouring rain or that drysuit underwater). Goretex does not make sense for a drysuit used for diving (I use it for winter paddling in cold water but when I am actually 90% dry).

No waterproof/breathable membrane is going to breath enough when you are sweating. The math doesn't work. It is waterproof, but only sort of breathable. Thus, unless it is actually raining, it's not great.

And of course, most fabrics leak at the seams, not through the coating. Unfortunately, most of the waterproof/breathable coatings make seam sealing difficult because they are very slippery.

The whole dry/breathable thing has obviously flaws at both ends of the spectrum. In fact, I seldom wear full Gore-Tex because it is seldom that wet and I would rather have better breathing. It always cracks me up to see sailors in full waterproofs for cold weather when there is neither spray nor rain. They just think it's what boaters wear in cool weather.

I have many articles of clothing I could claim are "great," but then why do I have so many? Because there is no such thing as one perfect garment.

(Secret. Most of my best garments came from thrift after the original owner gave up due to a seam leak. Most took 5-15 minutes to reseal good as new. Second secret. Be very careful with DWR re-treatments. They can loosen the tape on the whole jacket, after which replacing the tape is very difficult because the surface is contaminated with slippery crap. I ruined a jacket with DWR treatment--all the tape came off.)
 
Tri-lamination seems to work well.

An ex-military dry suit that is about 30 years old has never let a drop of water through.

There are obviously 3 layers (if not more that I cannot see; I have never picked it apart).

I now wear good base layers but once wore it with just shorts and a T-shirt during a Summer gale; more wet weather than cold weather.

I was as dry as a bone and not sweaty - lucky perhaps.

It has only ever been rinsed in fresh water and zip slip on zip and some special oil on neck and wrist seals. No odours. Looks like new. Remarkable.

I prefer it to my foulies (that I bought because the colour matched the hull colour and I was starting to feel self conscious in ‘non-sailing’ gear - I got over that - foulies were sweaty.
 
Many years ago - I read an article about Space Suit construction.

Basically it said that the design accepted that no material suitable for wearing could be accepted as 'sealed proof' in one layer. So the design worked on prinmciple of multiple layers that the 'permeable' would not be aligned ... with sufficient layers - the overall would then create 'sealed proof' ....

Whether trye or not - I have no idea - but I can see the logic of it.
 
Refueler said:
Many years ago - I read an article about Space Suit construction.

Basically it said that the design accepted that no material suitable for wearing could be accepted as 'sealed proof' in one layer. So the design worked on prinmciple of multiple layers that the 'permeable' would not be aligned ... with sufficient layers - the overall would then create 'sealed proof' ....

Whether trye or not - I have no idea - but I can see the logic of it.
Click to expand...
A common safety stratagem.

SwissCheese_final-431x454.jpg
 
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Once years ago I sailed up the East Coast of Scotland in horribly wet weather (rain and spray). My waterproofs weren't. We stopped at Fraserburgh and I bought a set of very cheap PVC fisherman's salopettes and smock. They were totally waterproof, even the seat, although a little primitive around the neck and hood. At the time I did a lot of mountaineering and the whole set was about a tenth the price of Tiso's mountain gear.

Goretex is worth the price if you are very active but standing watch in grim weather just needs warmth and waterproofing.

Testing waterproofs is a good idea - when the hose ban is over.
 
AndrewB said:
This morning I tested the various jackets I use for sailing by standing 10 mins under the shower in each in turn. Results, in order of age:
1. Danfellows. Heavy duty, gortex liner. 29 years old. Waterproof except for right cuff.
2. Musto HPX (wife's). Heavy duty, gortex liner. 21 years old. Completely waterproof even with some delamination.
3. Karrimor. Light duty, mesh liner. 4 years old. Slight leak left shoulder and cuffs.
3. Helly Hansen Performance. Medium, quilted liner. 1 year old. Leak both shoulders, and through front zip.
4. Regatta Great Outdoors (wife's). Light duty, mesh liner. 1 year old. Completely waterproof.

To be fair, the last three are 'outdoor' rather than 'sailing' jackets, used for fair-weather sailing. It's a remarkable result for the two older jackets, given how worn they now are, but not so good for the Helly Hansen, which has only been used a couple of times.
Click to expand...
3 - I can’t suggest much about the zip (except replacement) but an expensive coat (not sailing) leaked at shoulders.

Instead of repair with tape from inside I applied a bead of transparent sealant (recommended for wet suit repairs- not cheap) to the seams on the OUTSIDE.

Struck me as a bit like repairing a hole in a boat from the outside rather than from the inside.

It worked and coat no longer leaks at seams and is still good.

These guys seal the seams from outside AND add an extra layer of material, no taped seams inside.

The extra layer of material added after sealing the seam is similar Refeuler and Thinwaters’ space suit extra layer / protection analogy.

Very clever.

How We Make Drysuits - Seaskin Drysuits
 
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Cerebus said:
3 - I can’t suggest much about the zip (except replacement) but an expensive coat (not sailing) leaked at shoulders.

Instead of repair with tape from inside I applied a bead of transparent sealant (recommended for wet suit repairs- not cheap) to the seams on the OUTSIDE.

Struck me as a bit like repairing a hole in a boat from the outside rather than from the inside.

It worked and coat no longer leaks at seams and is still good.

These guys seal the seams from outside AND add an extra layer of material:

How We Make Drysuits - Seaskin Drysuits
Click to expand...
Yes, Seamseal is effective. Not as long lasting as tape, but good when you can't get to the inside.

The point of all this is that many small leaks can be tended to in 10 minutes. Don't expect miracles, but sometimes it's easy. I re-taped a favorite Gore-Tex anorak about 5 years ago. I keep it on the boat for weather "surprises", where it remains a favorite. Few pockets, no frills, dries fast, easy to pull on. Matching pants. Not stylish, but bone dry. It actually started as a mountaineering wear in the 80s. Simple is easy to keep leak-free.
 
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