Water in the bilges! (Vivacity 20ft)

[MarcJ]

Hi,

Since we picked the boat up a month or so ago, there has been water in the cockpit lockers and various hatches in the cabin. Not much - an inch or two. I've been working on this over the last several weekends. Windows were leaking, several of the deck fittings were loose, or without bolts, locker lids needed attention, and I found 3 holes (small) just going straight through the deck (by the cabin windows). All of which I've addressed.

I arrived last Friday to find about half a pint of water in a middle floor hatch and some other bits of water in hatches to the side and aft. Is this just the residue of water accumulated which has been hanging around and gradually making it's way to the lowest point or there's still a leak somewhere? Impossible question I know! Time will tell..

The bit that bugs me is that I can't get to all of the inside of the hull to check "everywhere", including where the cockpit scuppers drain (I can only see 2 pipes disappearing under the companion way). Under the cockpit is sectioned off with a fibreglass partition, and I can see the tiniest of water streams wetting a channel through a hole...pic:
View attachment 31721

There is also a locker/chart table constructed out of ply that is covering on side of the cabin and denies access to seeing underneath. It also closes proper access aft of that too. (I think it's days are numbered! )

The cockpit locker area gets a small bit of water in - although water will stand in there (in the corners under the lids, an inch at most) I wonder if there are any small leaks causing the "dribbles" in the cabin...
Here's several pics of that locker space - I think all the seals are soundish. I'm including them to invite comments - there's a mole grip left attached to the bolts attaching the outboard mount (why haven't I had a go at taking it off!? ), but there are 4 bolts protruding which seem to serve no purpose around those the outboard mount bolts - any ideas what was going on there?

Looking at the transom from outside - there are no indications of the spurious bolts - just the outboard mount and that pipe outfall.
I'm going to be putting electrics etc in and would be most happy if it was completely dry before I start! Thanks in advance!
Marc

 

[William_H]

I think it is an optimistic sailor who thinks he will have a dry boat. Eventually with time and wisdom you will know what to care about and what to accept. Those bolt ends parallel to the outboard bracket bolts may well have been for a previous outboard bracket. He just ground the bolts off and faired over outside. You can understand why with extreme difficult access to the inside of the transom.
I have occasionally ventured to the inside of the transom of my little boat but it is scary (knowing I might get stuck) tend to beg my son to do that part now. Both rudder pintle and o/b bracket bolts have been of concern. We replaced one bolt in rudder pintle while under way under spin but aqain by son. He is tall and skinny.
Regarding leaks yes it may be just drying out but then again maybe it still has leaks. All you can do is persevere curse and swear then give up. I am fortunate to have dry summers so I just ignore deck leaks. good luck olewill

 

[Fantasie 19]

The inside of your lockers/bilges look gratifyingly similar to mine....

 

[Bru]

The inside of your lockers/bilges look gratifyingly similar to mine....

Don't look that much different to mine either, the family resemblance is notable

I've sealed up, sealed off and generally blocked, eradicated and eliminated every source of water ingress I could find over the last three years and there's still always a few pints of water in the bilges

I'm guessing the Vivacity is similar to the Islander in that there are all sorts of inaccessible voids and spaces you just can't get at, I long ago decided to stop worrying about them 'cos she hasn't sunk in over 40 years and I don't suppose she's going to start doing so now unless something drastic changes

I was, for a long time, puzzled as to why the port cockpit locker has a limber hole to drain it into the cockpit well whilst the starboard one hasn't until I discovered that the two lockers are connected across the stern behind the well (another void!)

My only remaining issues are the unreliable bilge pump switch on the pump that keeps the cockpit well from filling up and the drip from the vent right above my flippin' bunk when it rains hard!

 

[Pye_End]

but there are 4 bolts protruding which seem to serve no purpose around those the outboard mount bolts - any ideas what was going on there?

Perhaps it used to have a sliding outboard bracket on runners which then got changed to the existing one?

 

[Lakesailor]

Don't ignore the possibility it is condensation. With the chilly nights we've been having that can be an issue. Have a look up at any overhead horizontal areas in the lockers and see if they are covered in water droplets in the mornings, before the air warms up.

 

[Bru]

Don't ignore the possibility it is condensation. With the chilly nights we've been having that can be an issue. Have a look up at any overhead horizontal areas in the lockers and see if they are covered in water droplets in the mornings, before the air warms up.

Good point. After much investigation had to conclude that was the explanation for the nearly permanent dampness of the bridge deck locker. The giveaway being the entire underside of the bridge deck being covered in water droplets (a leak would surely be more focussed)

 

[johnalison]

Water can be a devil to trace. It is one reason why cleaning out lockers and bilges, and if necessary, painting them, can be worthwhile as it make tracing the course easier, or less impossible.

 

[lustyd]

My money is on the locker lids. I finally replaced mine this year and lockers are now dry. Previously though I still had the battery in one locker in a battery box and it was fine.

 

[PetiteFleur]

I had a Vivacity 20 some years ago and it took ages to cure all the leaks - a brief summary follows - The wood filler between the deck & hull had rotted and let water in -
In addition it had all been fastened with steel screws which didn't help -
Found two drilled holes under the filler strip which did not do anything and water from these dribbled right to the rear of the boat
The rubbing strip was also rotten in places, also fitted with steel screws and let water in
Finally discovered handrails on the cabin roof let water through the screw holes - only discovered when sheltering at anchor during a thunderstorm and dripping on us!

 

[Lakesailor]

Don't ignore the possibility it is condensation. With the chilly nights we've been having that can be an issue. Have a look up at any horizontal areas in the lockers and see if they are covered in water droplets in the mornings, before the air warms up.

 

[MarcJ]

Many thanks for all the replies! Nice to know it's not unusual!
I'm pretty sure condensation isn't the culprit, as every time my hands were dry I'd be fertilling about checking bolt ends and upper panels etc. I'm sure that it will be something to contend with when we finally sleep on her.

The locker lids are definitely suspect - I ran a layer of marine goop to seal them (even though they didn't look like they could let in water because of a recessed channel). One of the last things I noticed when leaving the boat was water somehow getting in here - I found a couple of drips just under lid lip.

So think it's going to be an ongoing game of catch and mouse, coupled with a philosophical attitude about my wet bilges! thanks again!

 

[Iliade]

Nobody has commented on the lack of a dirty great backing pad for those o/b bracket bolts. Hopefully the transom has something substantial built in?

I once had my bracket come through the transom, fortunately as I was crossing the bar into harbour, not far out at sea...

 

[DaveS]

You haven't said whether the water is fresh or salt.

My first boat was a Vivacity 20 and it was often very wet (salt water) - on one occasion I lost a shoe then discovered it had floated right round to the opposite side of the boat. The cause of the ingress, when I eventually discovered it, was very simple. The sink drain had no sea cock and, when heeled on port tack, the sink would fill with water which then ran down the back of the berths into the bilge. Because of the cover over the sink this happened out of sight, and of course when on an even keel the sink was empty. Fitting a sea cock in the drain cured it.

 

[MarcJ]

You haven't said whether the water is fresh or salt.

My first boat was a Vivacity 20 and it was often very wet (salt water) - on one occasion I lost a shoe then discovered it had floated right round to the opposite side of the boat. The cause of the ingress, when I eventually discovered it, was very simple. The sink drain had no sea cock and, when heeled on port tack, the sink would fill with water which then ran down the back of the berths into the bilge. Because of the cover over the sink this happened out of sight, and of course when on an even keel the sink was empty. Fitting a sea cock in the drain cured it.

Yes I read about that somewhere else and it's been on my mind as an additional cause - don't suppose sea cocks come cheap, I'll put a good plug in for the time being..

 

[Bru]

of course, there is another possibility we have overlooked ...

it could actually be SINKING

not that I want to worry you or anything

 

[MarcJ]

of course, there is another possibility we have overlooked ...

it could actually be SINKING

not that I want to worry you or anything

OMG OMG OMG Nooooooooooooo!

 

[DaveS]

Yes I read about that somewhere else and it's been on my mind as an additional cause - don't suppose sea cocks come cheap, I'll put a good plug in for the time being..

From memory - and this was about 30 years ago - I just used a cheap brass gate valve (horror, shock) on the basis that except when heeled it was above the water line.

But is your unwelcome water fresh or salt?

 

[MarcJ]

From memory - and this was about 30 years ago - I just used a cheap brass gate valve (horror, shock) on the basis that except when heeled it was above the water line.

But is your unwelcome water fresh or salt?

The boat is on a lake, so (thank goodness!) I don't have to taste it to find out....

Good idea about the valve - it could even just be plastic... (even more shock, horror!)

 

[Fantasie 19]

From memory - and this was about 30 years ago - I just used a cheap brass gate valve (horror, shock) on the basis that except when heeled it was above the water line.

But is your unwelcome water fresh or salt?

I had the same problem on my last boat, not a Vivacity but same vintage/size; plastic fitting for sink drain was cracked at the point it came through the hull, and it dripped whenever the boat was heeled over... a week on my drying mooring was enough to fill the boat to just below the bunks as it heeled more every tide........