Was thinking about a Westerly, but maybe not...

[chris-s]

After owning our Pegasus 700 for four years and taking her to the Scillies twice this year and a thirteen day trip to Salcombe and back, we are feeling like we have outgrown so far as coastal cruising goes so we have started to look at moving on. To begin with we were thinking Westerly, the Tempest, Fulmar or maybe a Konsort look like that would suit us, but then we started looking at Sigma 33, Beneteau First 29-30 size , Hunters in the same size range and even Saddler 32's and whats on the market in sub-30K price range, in my uneducated eyes, make the Westerlys look old, and dated, many with old hardware/electronics in need of updating and generally poor value. Am I missing something because a bilge keel Tempest or Fulmar look like they would suit us perfectly. Part of this maybe that we have completely refurbished our Pegasus so that pretty much everything bar the hull, mast and boom is less than four years old.

 

[steveeasy]

Can’t comment on the pros and cons of a Westery(well I’d not be brave enough) but when you have outgrown a boat and it’s all done fully refurbed it’s difficult considering a new boat unless it’s in perfect condition.
I found a great contessa 32 but it needed so much to bring it to a similar standard to my existing boat.. I’m not keen on big GRP cockpits either they feel like a big jaquizzi. Good luck with your search.
Steveeasy

 

[V1701]

Condition is everything of course and you have to treat each boat on its merits but I've never been a fan of Westerlys either. I think I'm scarred from once looking at an old Longbow where the owner had resolved the droopy headlining issue by wallpapering it. Sadler 32/34 seem to me to be good value, the double skin is a good thing to have in UK (as with etaps) and yes you can get a much more modern design 30 odd footer for £30k. I would take your time the market is starting to swing away from being a seller's one again at that sort of price/age of boat...

Good luck with your search...

 

[geem]

A Fulmar every time for me. Excellent boats

 

[dunedin]

A Fulmar every time for me. Excellent boats

Yes, BIG difference between the Ed Dubois designed Westerlies, such as the Fulmar, and some of the older generations. The older boats were good, but the Fulmar is great, and a brilliant sailing boat.

 

[Charlie Boy]

Condition is everything of course and you have to treat each boat on its merits but I've never been a fan of Westerlys either. I think I'm scarred from once looking at an old Longbow where the owner had resolved the droopy headlining issue by wallpapering it. Sadler 32/34 seem to me to be good value, the double skin is a good thing to have in UK (as with etaps) and yes you can get a much more modern design 30 odd footer for £30k. I would take your time the market is starting to swing away from being a seller's one again at that sort of price/age of boat...

Good luck with your search...

The S32 isn’t double skinned, unlike the 34 which is. We’ve had our 32 for some years, I find it a really easy boat to work on. Very similar class to the Fulmars but no drooping headlining! We have the original Bukh DV20 (new liners, refurbed pumps and injectors) and I’ve added solar panels, a Waeco fridge along with various other bits and bobs like pressurised cold water.

 

[mrming]

I have a Fulmar. I suggest you go below in a few of the boats you mentioned and compare. There’s a lot more space in the Fulmar’s saloon than many of the other boats you mention. The switch to aft cabins in the late 80s made a lot of sub 35’ boats very cramped inside as the layout was done more for the brochure than for true comfort, and design had not yet truly entered the “Hugh Jarse” phase. The headlining is indeed the main Westerly achilles heel, but that’s also true of Beneteaus and Jeanneaus in the price range. If you want space and sailing ability for around £20-25k (in good condition), it’s difficult to beat the Fulmar. The Sigma 33 is also an excellent boat but it is smaller down below. As dunedin says, the Ed Dubois Westerlys are a very different beast to the older ones. The styling can be a bit homely but the sailing qualities are very good.

 

[geem]

I have a Fulmar. I suggest you go below in a few of the boats you mentioned and compare. There’s a lot more space in the Fulmar’s saloon than many of the other boats you mention. The switch to aft cabins in the late 80s made a lot of sub 35’ boats very cramped inside as the layout was done more for the brochure than for true comfort, and design had not yet truly entered the “Hugh Jarse” phase. The headlining is indeed the main Westerly achilles heel, but that’s also true of Beneteaus and Jeanneaus in the price range. If you want space and sailing ability for around £20-25k (in good condition), it’s difficult to beat the Fulmar. The Sigma 33 is also an excellent boat but it is smaller down below. As dunedin says, the Ed Dubois Westerlys are a very different beast to the older ones. The styling can be a bit homely but the sailing qualities are very good.

I have two friends who sailed their Fulmars single handed long distance. Both of them were well into retirement. One took his Transatlantic there and back singlehanded. They both sailed UK to Portugal several times. They are a great boat in heavy weather with a very good layout. Thr good ones have long since been updated with hot and cold pressurised water, shower and new engines. I think it would be my go to boat if I was down sizing

 

[Concerto]

I know I am biased as I have a Fulmar. The quality of build and how they sail are their main factors as to why they are so popular and are at a premium over similar size and age boats. In about 10 years time my Fulmar will probably have to sold due to arthritis in my hands and feet, having suffered for over 30 years. mrming is correct about the change to aft cabins makes some boats feel smaller. The Westerly Storm is nearly 2 ft longer than the Fulmar, but the main cabin feels smaller as the coachroof is narrower and the cabin is further foward in the layout which means the mast post is in the table, not on the main bulkhead, also the toilet compartment is smaller according to a Storm owner.

The Sigma 33 is narrower that a Fulmar and has much less internal volume, according to someone who recently sold his Sigma 33 when he came aboard Concerto. Again the Sadler 34 has less internal volume. The Hunter Channel 31 is also a lot smaller internally.

Ed Dubois got the design of the Fulmar just about as perfect as a yacht of this period could be. When I chatted with him a couple of years before his death, he said it was still his favourite design. Currently I am near the end of my full singlehanded Round Britain trip. Read the adventure from the start and you will see why I sail a Fulmar and the conditions have included 3 days of force 8 and 1 day of force 9. Round Britian day 1

Just as a general comment I find the layout of the Tempest to be a marmite boat, you either love it or hate it. I know 2 owners with Tempests and they love them. One day I took a couple, who owned a Centaur, out for a sail as they were thinking of upgrading to a Fulmar. When we returned to the marina I suggested they look at a friend's Tempest as he was onboard. They loved the Fulmar, but disliked the Tempest. They have bought a Fulmar.

Fulmars do appear on the market with headlinings replaced, rather than having it sagging or bodge fixed. It is a question of waiting until the right one comes on the market. The Fulmars were built from 1980 (like mine) until 1991, they came in fin, twin fin and a limited number of lift keel and a total of 444 were built. Last year Concerto was the Westerly Owners Association boat at the Southampton Boat Show, and for those who could not attend I did a short video on YouTube.

To be honest any of the boats you have mentioned will feel big after your Pegasus 700. You could also consider a Moody 31. When I was buying, I had the money to purchase a fully equipped new 32ft boat, but bought a Fulmar as I dislike the modern Ikea interiors and the construction methods used to build them. Concerto was tired and needed some work to bring her up to my standard as I had never owned a secondhand boat before, only new. If you want to see how and what I have done to improve Concerto, look at this PowerPoint presentation I made to the RYA London and SE Conference in Jan 2020, just before Covid hit. Since this presentation I have completely stripped the original lacquer off the internal woodwork and relacquered (not varnished) it. Since the boat show, she now has pressurised hot and cold water system with a shower, the cool box converted into a full fridge and an upgraded electrical panel. Next I will be changing the old solar panel to a larger more powerful one and adding a wind generator.

https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/3/3f/Concerto.pdf

My advice would be to start looking at boats, rather than checking out what is available online. Photographs should give an impression of what the boat is like, but may omit to show some bad bits. Getting the feel of different boats will then make you realise there are major differences in them. Check things like the berth lengths and width, one person at the show checked Concerto's berths and he was impressed he could lie flat on all the berths as he was 6ft 8ins!

If you need further advice on the Fulmar, I am a WOA BoatLine member with extensive knowledge of the class, just ask or if you prefer send me a private message.

 

[fredrussell]

At the £30k mark you’re starting to get into early AWB territory. I’ve seen a couple of late 90’s Bavarias for that sort of money recently. Good boats. Here’s one that’s up for £33k just by way of an example, though I’ve seen 90’s ones that are within budget. Bavaria Yachts 31 for sale UK, Bavaria Yachts boats for sale, Bavaria Yachts used boat sales, Bavaria Yachts Sailing Yachts For Sale 2001 Bavaria 31 - Apollo Duck

A bilge keel Fulmar was for a long time my ‘next boat’ but in the end I went for a slightly more modern boat that had less wood on deck to maintain. Other than that, for me, there’s very little not to like about Fulmars.

 

[mrming]

At the £30k mark you’re starting to get into early AWB territory. I’ve seen a couple of late 90’s Bavarias for that sort of money recently. Good boats. Here’s one that’s up for £33k just by way of an example, though I’ve seen 90’s ones that are within budget. Bavaria Yachts 31 for sale UK, Bavaria Yachts boats for sale, Bavaria Yachts used boat sales, Bavaria Yachts Sailing Yachts For Sale 2001 Bavaria 31 - Apollo Duck

A bilge keel Fulmar was for a long time my ‘next boat’ but in the end I went for a slightly more modern boat that had less wood on deck to maintain. Other than that, for me, there’s very little not to like about Fulmars.

I’ve noticed a few of those AWBs myself. They seem to be Bavarias and Dufours in the 32’ range where they still suffer from “small saloon syndrome”, but no doubt the more modern construction is easier to maintain and they often look like the interiors have worn better. Selling fast if in good nick.

 

[Obi]

Apart from headlinings, the interiors of Westerlys I have viewed have always been attractive due to the good quality materials used. On the whole, I found them to be better quality than the other brands the OP mentions. It seemed to me "that one gets what one pays for" held true. I often thought the Westerly interior similar to the HR of a similar era.

Dropping headlinings put me off at least two Westerlys.

Whilst hunting for a long distance cruiser myself I checked out a Bavaria Lagoon 390. Berthon Lymington said "It is not like other Bavarias, you should take a look". I did, and I was very impressed. They have a Lloyd's hull certificate like the Westerlys have. Deck fittings and gelcoat all seemed good quality and the layout is great. The interior will not be a Westerly quality, but a Bavaria one, but apart from that I would take the 390 over many other AWB at the price point.

 

[chris-s]

Thanks for all the replies they have helped a lot and was pretty much what I expected. A Tempest or Fulmar are still at the top of our list.


We are in no rush, having secured a suitable swing mooring where we keep the Pegasus, then when the right boat comes along at least we have somewhere to tie her up to and every month between adds more to the fund.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Another Westerly that should be worth considering is the Discus. I have owned one for nearly 7 years and lived aboard comfortably, just changed to a motorboat and put the Westerly on the market, a true sailaway boat.

 

[PeterV]

I have a Westerly but not a Fulmar! I have a GK29 on which I’ve replaced the headlining, the rigging, the electronics and the sails. I bought it very cheap and it’s a great boat, but I am constantly surprised at the prices asked for Westerlies that need all this work doing and a new engine. If you can spend about £30k you should expect all this work to have been done already.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I have a Westerly but not a Fulmar! I have a GK29 on which I’ve replaced the headlining, the rigging, the electronics and the sails. I bought it very cheap and it’s a great boat, but I am constantly surprised at the prices asked for Westerlies that need all this work doing and a new engine. If you can spend about £30k you should expect all this work to have been done already.

Absolutely!

My Discus has had all new sails, rigging, upholstery, headlings, water system, electronics etc etc. I reckon that i've spent in excess of £20K on it, plus all of my time, asking £29,950. Had someone look at it who thought it looked expensive compared to one that they had looked at for £22k, that was scruffy and needed all of the above doing!

 

[Concerto]

There is one Fulmar for sale at the moment in very good condition. It has had lots of work done to it and is a very late build as well. As for the price, it is far too high at £55,000. Just before I bought Concerto in 2013, the very last Fulmar built was sold for just under £40,000.

 

[dunedin]

I saw the Westerly Fulmar Santa Vey twice on the Clyde last week (at Millport and Loch Ranza). From the outside she looked very smart and shiny, clearly with a very dedicated owner.

I wonder if she is the same Santa Vey that was the much loved - and hard used - sail training boat from Cumbrae many years ago. It was sailing on that Santa Vey in strong winds that made may aware of how good sea boats they are. In boisterous conditions she handled the conditions much better than bigger boats out at the same time. The mainsail split from side to side in a sudden squall out of, coincidentally, Loch Ranza but we simply put in reef 3 (fortunately just above the rip) and sailed onwards unperturbed.

As a blast from the past, and a description of the joys of sailing, a report from a 1989 trip in Santa Vey - Chay is a four-letter word

 

[doug748]

A lot of good boats mentioned but I do think that Sadler 34's are generally sound value and have a lot going for them, not least a small aft cabin for the kids, chart table and still a good size saloon with C shaped dinette.

My tip, for what it is worth, is always try and find a well cared for and lightly used hull. Sails, rigging, electronics and even engines can be fixed, hey presto as good as new, it's just one hit. However a neglected, scratched, badly modified, damaged or wet interior means a hard slog and the end result is not always convincing.

This looks a clean example, a bit over top budget though. Seems to be available, Plymouth:

 

[peter gibbs]

A Fulmar every time for me. Excellent boats

9 seasons and f9 in North Sea with Fulmar so I say go for it. Several bundred built. Get a cared for model bilge or fin. Bilge sails really well but will "slap" in small seas.