[70521]
Well-Known Member
I totally agree about it being over complicated. My lazy jacks consist of some 6mm line, several plastic thimbles and a few whippings - I'll put an eye splice in the ends when they need replacing.
Was there ever a more crazily overpriced bit of boat gear…
- Thread starter fredrussell
- Start date
Tamar
Well-Known Member
It's pretty easy to make one up yourself, I made one for my Eventide years ago, and before YouTube. I'm sure there is a tutorial on line.
I think it was out of necessity, before force 4 and the like.
I think it was out of necessity, before force 4 and the like.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
this is a common misunderstanding. Web businesses don’t have lower costs than brick and mortar, quite the opposite. Force 4 have the excuse that they have a half reasonable web platform as well as shops so they have both sets of costs, but high street only shops have far lower costs than competent web businesses. While any fool can throw a website together, it’s quite a different proposition to create and maintain a complex website and logistics operation to build a web business. And let’s not forget that Amazon were spending so much on hosting that they created AWS as a side business!
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
Surely -in terms of what you get 12months later - lazy jacks are a bargain compared to ‘ anti’ foul paint ??
fredrussell
Well-Known Member
That is copied and pasted from the Barton website. Part no 41150, currently £259 at the first place online if you google it.
Barton Marine - Tech Info - Sail Handling - Lazy jack kit for yachts up to 9m part no 41150
Barton Lazy Jack Kit
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Moodysailor
Well-Known Member
Hmm, interesting. I appreciate your view, but having managed a business based in a marina, I'm not sure I agree - however there are so many variables, and I'm basing my statement off my experience - others may vary.
I do know that it is possible to run an online only store on a very low cost, some of my friends have done just that. There are some fixed costs with B&M that are possible to avoid with online. But for sure, it is possible to scale up costs on both sides, and I agree that there are economies of scale with larger business - hence I did state that I am not defending F4. ?
Rappey
Well-Known Member
I have a contender for a far more overpriced bit of plastic, a raymarine rudder position indicator which contains a £15 potentiometer and the rest is plastic..
Outrageous at around £230
Outrageous at around £230
lustyd
Well-Known Member
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but this statement is the equivalent of saying you can reduce costs of running a shop by basing it out of a rotten shed in the middle of nowhere and writing the prices on bits of masking tape. It's very easy to spot the cost cutting web sites - they'll be the ones with bad photos and descriptions (takes time to make a catalogue of every single item!) and with poor navigation, iffy payment options, no provision for disaster recovery or outages etc. Those stores are usually the last resort of customers, and their success is curtailed as a result, just like the rotten shed retailer.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Thats fine to judge some as its true ... but more and more online are not even carrying stock. Their pages and catalogues are reprints / cut & paste of manufacturers - brand pages ....
You order from the online site - the article is sent from factory via a re-direct ... EU is absolutely rife with this ....
People buy from these guys because the wait is worth the discounted price.
Moodysailor
Well-Known Member
Apologies if you have misunderstood me. What I said in my first comment still stands - that most marine B&M stores are in areas that command high costs - i.e marinas. I know for a fact (having had to negotiate and sign off the rent every quarter) how expensive these are. And it's not just the fixed costs, there are a lot more costs associated with staffing, inventory, etc with a physical store.
For sure cheaper B&M stores could be possible to find, but they wouldn't typically be a chandlery. I also know for a fact that it is possible to run a decent looking online business from your living room.
I'm not disagreeing with you either, I agree with your post. Just wanted to reiterate that I was comparing shoreside chandleries with online from my own experience managing a business based in a marina and competing with mail order & online. Good to have details, otherwise we get into the weeds quickly. .?
lustyd
Well-Known Member
These forums are full of tales of woe from people buying from drop shipping sites. Yes, they're cheap to set up and nothing more than a logistics front for the distributor catalogue. Prices are low but service is crap and you're never sure what you're getting because the description is written by someone who very likely never saw the product much less measured and photographed it. I do think there's a place for good drop ship sites, don't get me wrong (I also think there's a place for rotten shed retailers!). If I know a part number I think it's pretty reasonable to be able to order it cheap and almost direct if the retailer won't be adding much value. I also think it's perfectly reasonable for a retailer to double that cost when I need that part same day. That said, I've bought some bits from China with free next day delivery in the past so times are certainly changing!
Refueler
Well-Known Member
I live in a country that due to its lack of size and population ... Latvia since joining EU has dropped from about 2.3 mill to under 1.9 mill .... the possibilities of buying many items that UK and similar regard as common - is near impossible. So we have to use online.
You mention Tales of Woe .......... well I've lived in Baltic former Soviet States since 1993 and rarely have I had any 'woes' ... in fact I can say I've had more 'woes' from over counter shop sales ....
Rappey
Well-Known Member
My friend owned a chandlery business for a long time... It came to a point where it was more profitable to rent out his huge factory unit rather than run a chandlery from it ...
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Funny you should say that. I've yet to pick up a radar I ordered in May from a B&M shop who for some reason couldn't get a date from the distributor. The distributor told me 4 week lead time and they were happy to tell me where it was if I had the order number. B&M shop refused to give me the order number with the distributor/manufacturer. During the two and a half months I was given 3 stories I know to be outright lies and supplied with a different part than ordered without being told it wasn't what I ordered - they were hoping I wouldn't notice a completely different brand on the side of the massive radome.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
There is a shortage of many things marine at the moment. Garmin seem to be getting on top of things, Raymarine less so, with Simrad so far behind it's a joke. Fusion are doing pretty well and Emtrak, the AIS people are doing exceptionally well, as are Victron. I can get dates from the distributor, but they are not set in stone and delays can (and do) happen.
We can't reliably book a lot of work in as we can't be sure when the parts will arrive. It's ridiculously busy, as more and more people buy boats and more and more owners are updating the boats they already have. Everyone in the industry is very busy. We've got jobs book in up to two months ahead and are still waiting for some of the equipment for some of those jobs. Personally, i like to keep everyone on the water wherever possible, so i might delay fitting someones latest new toy for a day or two, if someone else has had a failure that stops them using the boat.
Very strange and trying times at the moment.
We can't reliably book a lot of work in as we can't be sure when the parts will arrive. It's ridiculously busy, as more and more people buy boats and more and more owners are updating the boats they already have. Everyone in the industry is very busy. We've got jobs book in up to two months ahead and are still waiting for some of the equipment for some of those jobs. Personally, i like to keep everyone on the water wherever possible, so i might delay fitting someones latest new toy for a day or two, if someone else has had a failure that stops them using the boat.
Very strange and trying times at the moment.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Yes I totally understand that Paul and it wasn’t the delay that bothered me. If I can speak with the distributor and find out that they know where the orders are and what ships they are on then so can the shops. Making up stories about why the manufacturer isn’t shipping things isn’t helpful at all. Honesty goes a long way!
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Pauls tale about parts is literally on everything now ... living in Latvia - imagine trying to get gear.
My two Jonsered Lawn Tractors - I cannot get spares for them ... guy who runs the Husqvarna (that's parent of Jonsered) is so low on stock because of shipment troubles - he's having to turn away work.
Chatting other day in his workshop - he pointed at the batterys we use to start the Lawn Tractors (20 A/hr 12V Lead Acids) - he had 6. That was his years supply from supplier .. he'd ordered 50 ... but received 6.
I wanted 46cm grass blades for one of my tractors ..... none in stock for last 2 months .. none coming. His 48cm for my other tractor - I got his last pair.
My Volvo XC needed new oil return pipe from turbo ... normally this would be a 2 - 3 day wait and then fit. It took 6 weeks to arrive. The Auto Service I use have also same parts problems ... just don't know when will arrive.
Order gear of eBay ... I never know if I will get in 1 - 2 days or 1 - 2 months ..... doesn't matter if EU or not supplied.
My two Jonsered Lawn Tractors - I cannot get spares for them ... guy who runs the Husqvarna (that's parent of Jonsered) is so low on stock because of shipment troubles - he's having to turn away work.
Chatting other day in his workshop - he pointed at the batterys we use to start the Lawn Tractors (20 A/hr 12V Lead Acids) - he had 6. That was his years supply from supplier .. he'd ordered 50 ... but received 6.
I wanted 46cm grass blades for one of my tractors ..... none in stock for last 2 months .. none coming. His 48cm for my other tractor - I got his last pair.
My Volvo XC needed new oil return pipe from turbo ... normally this would be a 2 - 3 day wait and then fit. It took 6 weeks to arrive. The Auto Service I use have also same parts problems ... just don't know when will arrive.
Order gear of eBay ... I never know if I will get in 1 - 2 days or 1 - 2 months ..... doesn't matter if EU or not supplied.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
I totally agree, i wasn't defending your supplier. They would have ordered your radar from the same distributor as i use, because there is only one, they are the sole UK distributor. I can speak to them in advance and get an idea of when stuff should arrive, i can follow that up if needs be, so can they. It's odd that they didn't, perhaps they felt that if they told you it would be xx weeks you wouldn't want to wait and would go elsewhere. No excuse though, just tell people how it is.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
As a matter of interest, what spare parts do they not sell separately?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The shrouds over the blocks are I think specific to the kit. Not done the exercise (why would one) but would guess that the sum of the individual parts might be a bit less than the kit to allow for packaging.
The whole point is that the OP is not comparing like with like, and seems to have difficulty in accepting that there is often more than one solution to a problem and that these alternatives may well be at different price levels. This is a discretionary purchase. The consumer then makes the choice , and if a consumer thinks this kit offers good value it is not overpriced. The kits have been in Barton's range for nearly 30 years - I considered it when I re-rigged in 1992, but only bought the reefing line kit. Would imagine though that sales have dropped away as most boats from earlier eras have now been converted to lazyjacks and maybe stackpacks.
The whole point is that the OP is not comparing like with like, and seems to have difficulty in accepting that there is often more than one solution to a problem and that these alternatives may well be at different price levels. This is a discretionary purchase. The consumer then makes the choice , and if a consumer thinks this kit offers good value it is not overpriced. The kits have been in Barton's range for nearly 30 years - I considered it when I re-rigged in 1992, but only bought the reefing line kit. Would imagine though that sales have dropped away as most boats from earlier eras have now been converted to lazyjacks and maybe stackpacks.