jimi
Well-Known Member
.. on Saturday when a yacht went aground in Newton Creek .. prima facie, it would seem to me to a gross abuse of the system ..
<hr width=100% size=1>
<hr width=100% size=1>
Was it really a Mayday!!
- Thread starter jimi
- Start date
powerskipper
Well-Known Member
unless there was
"Grave and imminent danger to a person, vessel, plane or vehicle " and immediate assistance was require then
"No"
Assistance required would be a Pan Pan
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/>http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/</A>
Julie
"Grave and imminent danger to a person, vessel, plane or vehicle " and immediate assistance was require then
"No"
Assistance required would be a Pan Pan
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/>http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/</A>
Julie
G
Guest
Guest
Even a Pan Pan ??
Even that level is implying risk and some danger ....
I don't know the full facts about the baot aground in Newtown Creek ..... but if not a serious threatening situation .... then Mayday or Pan Pan is not on. Simply a general call asking for assistance from someone woul be more appropriate.
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
Even that level is implying risk and some danger ....
I don't know the full facts about the baot aground in Newtown Creek ..... but if not a serious threatening situation .... then Mayday or Pan Pan is not on. Simply a general call asking for assistance from someone woul be more appropriate.
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
AlexL
Well-Known Member
probably not, but what is routine to some people is very scary, and could be thought of as iminent danger, to others. I'm sure the coastgaurd would rather people shout for help and then, once the details are established, downgrade if required, rather than the other way around. If people get 'told off' for sending maydays when perhaps it is not, it could be a very dangerous precident.
<hr width=100% size=1>
<hr width=100% size=1>
muminator
Well-Known Member
We heard that call when we were out...didn't they run aground on a rising tide? How dangerous can that be - you just wait don't you? Or am I missing something here?
I guess they should feel they can call the coastguard if they need to, but should they be out if they haven't had the training to know the difference between the levels of emergency call.
Still, we all have to learn and God knows we've made our share of c**k ups. Never had to take up the time of the emergency services yet though...
<hr width=100% size=1>Definition of an expert: An Ex is a has-been, and a Spurt is a drip under pressure...
I guess they should feel they can call the coastguard if they need to, but should they be out if they haven't had the training to know the difference between the levels of emergency call.
Still, we all have to learn and God knows we've made our share of c**k ups. Never had to take up the time of the emergency services yet though...
<hr width=100% size=1>Definition of an expert: An Ex is a has-been, and a Spurt is a drip under pressure...
duncan
Well-Known Member
Last week another forumite and I responded to a call from Portland re a missing windsurfer in Poole Harbour - 15 minutes into the 'search' we were released when he was confirmed to have got home.
Hearing Portland calling for anyone near Dancing Ledge this Saturday, when we were fishing of St Albans, my initial reaction was what now; but the conditions wern't great and we had seen some small craft out and responded. A few minutes later we have lost most of teh livebait out of the tank on the bathing platform but have established a guy hanging onto the keel of a skiff 20yds of the rocks - keeping Porland informed. He seemed well, able to swim (trying to anyway towing his craft!) and was equiped with a lifejacket (not inflated) and either a wet or dry suit.
We were about to take him onboard when first the helicopter arrives - jez they were efficient; as we moved clear the winchman literally swooped down, grabbed him, and away! then a Dorset Police Rib arrived, towed the skiff clear, righted it and made ready to tow it off as the Swanage lifeboat arrived (not the ILB), a Coastguard, police or harbour master jetski 'flew in' and finally what I assume was a salvage craft of somesort - bit like a fast potter with no fishing gear and a small derrik - he probably wasn't happy!
I post this in the contect of this thread with the question 'overkill?' - as explained above it might well seem so - it did at the time to us!
However - the swell back of the cliffs might not have held the casualty off teh rocks as it did, he or she might not have been as fit or well prepared, we might not have been there (and if I had been single handed I would have struggled to get a line to anyone who couldn't grab for it) eqally the guy could have been in a bad way so us getting him on board wouldn't have helped and the helicopter could have. Obviously the CG have to assume the worst and everyone plays their part.
Equally of course those summoning them should try and provide accurate information but I suspect they will always assume the worst.
<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Hearing Portland calling for anyone near Dancing Ledge this Saturday, when we were fishing of St Albans, my initial reaction was what now; but the conditions wern't great and we had seen some small craft out and responded. A few minutes later we have lost most of teh livebait out of the tank on the bathing platform but have established a guy hanging onto the keel of a skiff 20yds of the rocks - keeping Porland informed. He seemed well, able to swim (trying to anyway towing his craft!) and was equiped with a lifejacket (not inflated) and either a wet or dry suit.
We were about to take him onboard when first the helicopter arrives - jez they were efficient; as we moved clear the winchman literally swooped down, grabbed him, and away! then a Dorset Police Rib arrived, towed the skiff clear, righted it and made ready to tow it off as the Swanage lifeboat arrived (not the ILB), a Coastguard, police or harbour master jetski 'flew in' and finally what I assume was a salvage craft of somesort - bit like a fast potter with no fishing gear and a small derrik - he probably wasn't happy!
I post this in the contect of this thread with the question 'overkill?' - as explained above it might well seem so - it did at the time to us!
However - the swell back of the cliffs might not have held the casualty off teh rocks as it did, he or she might not have been as fit or well prepared, we might not have been there (and if I had been single handed I would have struggled to get a line to anyone who couldn't grab for it) eqally the guy could have been in a bad way so us getting him on board wouldn't have helped and the helicopter could have. Obviously the CG have to assume the worst and everyone plays their part.
Equally of course those summoning them should try and provide accurate information but I suspect they will always assume the worst.
<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Dominic
Well-Known Member
Was it really a Training Run
I understand that on a quiet day the rescue chaps will deploy for a "non-event" because it makes for a good training run for the junior crew.
I have heard of this for the RNLI - sending out the "second team" to get some practise in when a full rescue wasn´t really needed.
Besides - if you were a helicopter pilot sitting on standby for hours drinking instant coffee and watching crappy old videos in a smelly Portacabin you would fly out on the thinnest excuse ?
Shoot me down if I am wrong.... Just a opinion.
<hr width=100% size=1>
I understand that on a quiet day the rescue chaps will deploy for a "non-event" because it makes for a good training run for the junior crew.
I have heard of this for the RNLI - sending out the "second team" to get some practise in when a full rescue wasn´t really needed.
Besides - if you were a helicopter pilot sitting on standby for hours drinking instant coffee and watching crappy old videos in a smelly Portacabin you would fly out on the thinnest excuse ?
Shoot me down if I am wrong.... Just a opinion.
<hr width=100% size=1>
PaulJ
Well-Known Member
Re: Was it really a Training Run
Many years ago I was on the crew of an inshore rescue boat and I must admit that I quite enjoyed the callouts that I went on..... It gave me a feeling that I was doing something useful for a change! I confess that I never went out in "life threatening" conditions though. My guess would be that on the majority of occasions the guys in the rescue services don't mind being called out. They have the training and the equipment and that is why they are there.......
<hr width=100% size=1>I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.....
Many years ago I was on the crew of an inshore rescue boat and I must admit that I quite enjoyed the callouts that I went on..... It gave me a feeling that I was doing something useful for a change! I confess that I never went out in "life threatening" conditions though. My guess would be that on the majority of occasions the guys in the rescue services don't mind being called out. They have the training and the equipment and that is why they are there.......
<hr width=100% size=1>I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.....
jimi
Well-Known Member
Bit of a difference though isn't it .. off the rocks of the open Dorset coast .. or on the sheltered mud of a safe refuge in a 40ft yacht .. when the Mayday finished, Solent CG gave full details including the name of the yacht .. as close as it comes to administering a slap I should imagine.
<hr width=100% size=1>
<hr width=100% size=1>
duncan
Well-Known Member
sounds a good solution!
<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif
<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif
oldharry
Well-Known Member
Re: Was it really a Training Run
'< understand that on a quiet day the rescue chaps will deploy for a "non-event" because it makes for a good training run for the junior crew>
Quite a few years ago off Barmouth N.Wales, my son began to have a bad asthma attack. The situation was not critical, but he was going to need to see a Doctor fairly quickly, so we diverted in to Barmouth. Knowing alongside berths were limited I tried unsuccesfully to call the Harbourmaster, and eventually got a CG mobile unit, who got everything organised ashore for our arrival. He also offered to send the Lifeboat out to pick the boy up. as we were already by then near the entrance I reckoned by the time they reached us we would be in anyway, so I declined (much to my sons fury!).
The HM told me later the Lifeboat crew were quite disappointed as they had not had a 'shout' for several weeks!
<hr width=100% size=1>
'< understand that on a quiet day the rescue chaps will deploy for a "non-event" because it makes for a good training run for the junior crew>
Quite a few years ago off Barmouth N.Wales, my son began to have a bad asthma attack. The situation was not critical, but he was going to need to see a Doctor fairly quickly, so we diverted in to Barmouth. Knowing alongside berths were limited I tried unsuccesfully to call the Harbourmaster, and eventually got a CG mobile unit, who got everything organised ashore for our arrival. He also offered to send the Lifeboat out to pick the boy up. as we were already by then near the entrance I reckoned by the time they reached us we would be in anyway, so I declined (much to my sons fury!).
The HM told me later the Lifeboat crew were quite disappointed as they had not had a 'shout' for several weeks!
<hr width=100% size=1>
G
Guest
Guest
As you can see from my other post on this thread .... I donot agree with Mayday or Pan in situtaions like this.
Now to rcount an incident nthat involved me near St. Helens Fort at Bembridge.
My outboard ... Yamaha 5B - on back of my previous Snapdragon 23 got swamped by a wave and stopped ... so I ran out the genny .. I was exiting Bembridge channel in a strong possible force 5 - 6 wind .... The forestay tore out of the deck and unfurled the genny completely ....the mast ws bent to an alariming angle and we were being swept onto the bembridge banks ..... I lept forward and secured the spinnajer halyard to the deck and saved the mast, my pal - believe me this was not easy and he still has scars on his hands to show .... he used the furling line to haul the genny down enough for me to grab handfuls of sail.
At this time things were rough - but we were not in danger .... so I decided to drop anchor wherever we were. The wind was increasing all the time and was now getting to over 7 ...... ( we should have been well on our way and nearly home to Langstone by now ... but were stuck in full onslaught of the strong conditions. The boat was by now bouncing on the bottom and we couldn't launch the inflatable......
So I called Solent CG on the working freq. and advised thjem of our position, situation. They immedaitely advsied that they would assist and that we should be ready to accept whatever they sent .... soon after we were called by the Lifeboat .. the full job not the ILB .... he couldn't get close enough and would fire a rocket line over .... (lucky enough for me - I had MN training about this and knew what to expect ... line, hauser etc.)
So he fired the line over and I started hauling in to the towing hauser ..... its a long long line !! Anyway got hauser on board and he started to tow - with me and god knows how much anchor chain out .... my mate desperately on VHF asking them to hold off a bit to allow anchor up !!! So anchor up and a long tow line ... they dragged us off ....
They decided to drag us back into Bembridge , during the tow they were shortening the hauser till I was about 10 mtrs astern .... then they ran aground and there was nothing I could do but hit em up the a..... not enough time / scope to turn away .... This then damaged bow and stem /pulpit etc.
While they wer aground they decided to put us alongside and a guy jumped on ... slashed all sheets and secured us .....
Now he backed off and tried the run again .... we got in - he put us alongside.
Now what is the point of this post ....
a) I was close to shore and some would argue that rescue was not necessary.
b) I did not call Mayday or Pan ... but spoke direct to Solent CG on their working channel ....
c) I do not in any way hold or consider any action the RNLI took responsible etc. - I am very glad to have been towed in. The sheets and running aground - damage to boat etc. is as a result of my boats failure and not theirs.
d) the whole experience was certainly frightening and I can only say that I have looked at it and hopefully learnt something from it.
In hindsight .... I could have possibly sat out the banging on the bank and waited the tide to fall enough to wade ashore .. I don't know ... that is something that I cannot answer ... but at thet time the boat was suffering from the banging and the weather conditions...... conditions on the boat were incredible and everything was being shaken and flying around with the violence of the grounding, waves etc.
So finally - maybe the boat in question in Newtown was so frightened or unsure that they felt the need to call as they did .... who knows but them ....
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
Now to rcount an incident nthat involved me near St. Helens Fort at Bembridge.
My outboard ... Yamaha 5B - on back of my previous Snapdragon 23 got swamped by a wave and stopped ... so I ran out the genny .. I was exiting Bembridge channel in a strong possible force 5 - 6 wind .... The forestay tore out of the deck and unfurled the genny completely ....the mast ws bent to an alariming angle and we were being swept onto the bembridge banks ..... I lept forward and secured the spinnajer halyard to the deck and saved the mast, my pal - believe me this was not easy and he still has scars on his hands to show .... he used the furling line to haul the genny down enough for me to grab handfuls of sail.
At this time things were rough - but we were not in danger .... so I decided to drop anchor wherever we were. The wind was increasing all the time and was now getting to over 7 ...... ( we should have been well on our way and nearly home to Langstone by now ... but were stuck in full onslaught of the strong conditions. The boat was by now bouncing on the bottom and we couldn't launch the inflatable......
So I called Solent CG on the working freq. and advised thjem of our position, situation. They immedaitely advsied that they would assist and that we should be ready to accept whatever they sent .... soon after we were called by the Lifeboat .. the full job not the ILB .... he couldn't get close enough and would fire a rocket line over .... (lucky enough for me - I had MN training about this and knew what to expect ... line, hauser etc.)
So he fired the line over and I started hauling in to the towing hauser ..... its a long long line !! Anyway got hauser on board and he started to tow - with me and god knows how much anchor chain out .... my mate desperately on VHF asking them to hold off a bit to allow anchor up !!! So anchor up and a long tow line ... they dragged us off ....
They decided to drag us back into Bembridge , during the tow they were shortening the hauser till I was about 10 mtrs astern .... then they ran aground and there was nothing I could do but hit em up the a..... not enough time / scope to turn away .... This then damaged bow and stem /pulpit etc.
While they wer aground they decided to put us alongside and a guy jumped on ... slashed all sheets and secured us .....
Now he backed off and tried the run again .... we got in - he put us alongside.
Now what is the point of this post ....
a) I was close to shore and some would argue that rescue was not necessary.
b) I did not call Mayday or Pan ... but spoke direct to Solent CG on their working channel ....
c) I do not in any way hold or consider any action the RNLI took responsible etc. - I am very glad to have been towed in. The sheets and running aground - damage to boat etc. is as a result of my boats failure and not theirs.
d) the whole experience was certainly frightening and I can only say that I have looked at it and hopefully learnt something from it.
In hindsight .... I could have possibly sat out the banging on the bank and waited the tide to fall enough to wade ashore .. I don't know ... that is something that I cannot answer ... but at thet time the boat was suffering from the banging and the weather conditions...... conditions on the boat were incredible and everything was being shaken and flying around with the violence of the grounding, waves etc.
So finally - maybe the boat in question in Newtown was so frightened or unsure that they felt the need to call as they did .... who knows but them ....
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Was it really a Training Run
I used to fly model aircraft at Daedalus Airbase ...... and the RN Chopper guys ---- before Bristows took over .... used to have great delight in the practice of low level nose down take-offs .... yes they used to get bored sitting around.
The heli-crcle they stood on was behind two cabins .... and it was not unusual to see the choppper come between them on a call when it lifted off ... or should I say slid of the circle ....
It was a sight that I will never forget ......
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
I used to fly model aircraft at Daedalus Airbase ...... and the RN Chopper guys ---- before Bristows took over .... used to have great delight in the practice of low level nose down take-offs .... yes they used to get bored sitting around.
The heli-crcle they stood on was behind two cabins .... and it was not unusual to see the choppper come between them on a call when it lifted off ... or should I say slid of the circle ....
It was a sight that I will never forget ......
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/
tome
Well-Known Member
If the reports of a grounding on a rising tide are true then this is very disappointing, though I accept that there may have been unreported circumstances which justified the call.
A few weeks back we responded to a Pan Pan from a well found yacht off Cowes. Their engine had failed, but there was a fair breeze which would have safely carried them to refuge. The skipper felt unable to raise sail because his crew were 'not experienced enough' and we took them under tow. They could have safely anchored where they were whilst sorting themselves out. However, the whole episode was played out on ch16 despite my report that we were alongside and the yacht was in no immediate danger, so I imagine they were suitably embarassed.
<hr width=100% size=1>
A few weeks back we responded to a Pan Pan from a well found yacht off Cowes. Their engine had failed, but there was a fair breeze which would have safely carried them to refuge. The skipper felt unable to raise sail because his crew were 'not experienced enough' and we took them under tow. They could have safely anchored where they were whilst sorting themselves out. However, the whole episode was played out on ch16 despite my report that we were alongside and the yacht was in no immediate danger, so I imagine they were suitably embarassed.
<hr width=100% size=1>
dickh
Well-Known Member
A couple of weeks ago, we were coming into Harwich early in the mornimg when we heard a mayday, from an obviously very frightened person that he had run aground on the Goodwins and gave a position; which the Dover CG couldn't make fit the goodwins - it turned out he had grounded on the gunfleet sands off Clacton. Thames CG took over, and after confirming the actual position & everyone was OK, downgraded it to a Pan-Pan and sent out the Walton LB to presumbly pull them off. We then lost the signals as we were at Halfpenny pier by then. They were a 40' boat on route to London, it does make one wonder how he hit the sands, it was a clear fairly calm morning about F2/3 - wasn't he plotting his position on his chart? was he relying on a chart Plotter? was he on autopilot? etc etc etc - This calls for a "confessional" report and we might all learn.
<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing...
/forums/images/icons/smile.gif
<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing...
/forums/images/icons/smile.gifburgundyben
Well-Known Member
Re: Was it really a Training Run
The SAR helicopter used by Solent coastguard is/was contracted out to a company called Bristow, the contract said that even if no emergency happened they had to take off, drop a diver in the drink and recover him everyday.
So yes, they do it as practice.
<hr width=100% size=1>My house is for sale, 2 beds, Hamble.
The SAR helicopter used by Solent coastguard is/was contracted out to a company called Bristow, the contract said that even if no emergency happened they had to take off, drop a diver in the drink and recover him everyday.
So yes, they do it as practice.
<hr width=100% size=1>My house is for sale, 2 beds, Hamble.
