Was I in the wrong ??

[jon and michie]

On the day in question it was quite busy.
The sailing dinghy came out of nowhere as he was obscured by a large yacht and was around 20 - 25 ft from me when he appeared.
Exactly what rubberduck and bedouin have said just like a child stepping out into the road in between parked cars.

 

[jac]

On the day in question it was quite busy.
The sailing dinghy came out of nowhere as he was obscured by a large yacht and was around 20 - 25 ft from me when he appeared.
Exactly what rubberduck and bedouin have said just like a child stepping out into the road in between parked cars.

But presumably the boats were all anchored or on buoys, so you would have had the option to alter course and go round an anchored boat. I think the example up thread is more of the solid rows of boats, where it's not possible to alter course as the boats are attached to piles or a pontoon.

And using the child / parked car analogy, if it's in an established mooring area then surely the child, car analogy would be more accurate if you stated that the car was parked in a car park or a residential cut de sac and that you were therefore only doing 10 mph whilst looking out for kids.

 

[Boat2016]

I think the point that is trying to be made here is that dinghy sailors like to play in the path of oncoming motorboats when it's completely unnecessary and the best comparison here is the stepping out into road between parked cars, here's another example on a larger scale www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-24670515

 

[jac]

I think the point that is trying to be made here is that dinghy sailors like to play in the path of oncoming motorboats when it's completely unnecessary and the best comparison here is the stepping out into road between parked cars, here's another example on a larger scale www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-24670515

That suggests though that one type of recreational boater is playing whilst another is not.

Don't get me wrong, it can be bloody annoying when a dinghy ignores IRPCS but the implication was that somehow the dinghy should go do it's recreational boating in one place that was more convenient to someone else who wanted to do their recreational boating.

The fact is that we all share the water, we all have exactly the same right to it and the obligations to follow IRPCS.

You say that the dinghy being on the way was unnecessary and i agree - it's whole trip was unnecessary. But so are the trips of all leisure sailors / motorboaters/ kayakers / rowers etc. But nowhere in IRPCS does it say that someone making a leisure trip must keep out of the way of a non leisure tripper. There may be bylaws in some harbours about not obstructing commercial shipping in certain areas but that doesn't apply to even the largest pleasure craft.

You may have the largest most expensive yacht in the world but you have the same rules to follow as an 8 year old kid in an oppy.

 

[rubberduck]

So the boats tied to buoys don't have ropes for and aft to allow for the considerable depth range at varying tides, effectively cutting space by 50% at certain times. The dingy sailor should of course do as he pleases, if their mobo hits another craft because he has to take avoiding action at low speed in one of the fastest flowing rivers around, or
gets the props tangled in a line for the same reason, then presumably that would be all his fault. An awful lot of yachts & mobo's give way & get on with each other on the crouch, the odd idiot like this however shows no consideration which is why people get cross with them. Why people try to defend them is beyond me, it is not compulsory to argue on forums, you are allowed to agree. Defending this type of behaviour on encourages it.
Or is it really ok for a jet ski to run circles around a yacht & frighten your good lady so long as he has control, think about it.

 

[NealB]

So the boats tied to buoys don't have ropes for and aft to allow for the considerable depth range at varying tides, effectively cutting space by 50% at certain times. The dingy sailor should of course do as he pleases, if their mobo hits another craft because he has to take avoiding action at low speed in one of the fastest flowing rivers around, or
gets the props tangled in a line for the same reason, then presumably that would be all his fault. An awful lot of yachts & mobo's give way & get on with each other on the crouch, the odd idiot like this however shows no consideration which is why people get cross with them. Why people try to defend them is beyond me, it is not compulsory to argue on forums, you are allowed to agree. Defending this type of behaviour on encourages it.
Or is it really ok for a jet ski to run circles around a yacht & frighten your good lady so long as he has control, think about it.

1) The boats moored at Fambridge are on swinging moorings, not fore and aft moorings. They only have lines attached to their bows. Have you noticed that they therefore swing round as the tide changes?

2) I am very reluctant to take one side of a story as gospel, so I do not agree with you that the dinghy sailor is necessarily "an idiot". The OP says himself that he is inexperienced: that reduces my confidence in his assessment of the dinghy's behaviour (that's not a criticism: we all had to start somewhere).

3) Yes, I agree: let's all be helpful and considerate to each other, and understand some of the problems faced by other water users.

There is plenty of room to sail responsibly through the moorings at Fambridge.

 

[jac]

So the boats tied to buoys don't have ropes for and aft to allow for the considerable depth range at varying tides, effectively cutting space by 50% at certain times. The dingy sailor should of course do as he pleases, if their mobo hits another craft because he has to take avoiding action at low speed in one of the fastest flowing rivers around, or
gets the props tangled in a line for the same reason, then presumably that would be all his fault. An awful lot of yachts & mobo's give way & get on with each other on the crouch, the odd idiot like this however shows no consideration which is why people get cross with them. Why people try to defend them is beyond me, it is not compulsory to argue on forums, you are allowed to agree. Defending this type of behaviour on encourages it.
Or is it really ok for a jet ski to run circles around a yacht & frighten your good lady so long as he has control, think about it.

there is no excuse for being a knob, but someone suggested that the dinghy was playing so should not be there, but should be further up the river.

My point is that the dinghy is as much playing as you and I are. None of us are driving commercial vessels that might legitimately have cause to be concerned about weekend sailors and that might have protection under by laws ( in some areas)

In the absence of any protection from bylaws, we all need to abide by IRPCS as the OP did and possibly as the dinghy sailor did.

All we know of the dinghy sailor is that he sailed out from behind one boat, went across to near another then tacked and went back.
If the boats near his tack are moored fore and aft then that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone as the dinghy could hardly go through them and the dinghy is behaving in accordance with IRPCS and the change of course should be anticipated and is allowed in IRPCS as has been proven in countless examples of case law.

If the boats near where he tacked are not moored fore and aft and he tacked then i can understand the frustration. He could have ducked one, carried on and let the OP pass then tacked, but tacking rather than ducking is still valid, especially if beating against the tide as a duck of 30 foot to pass behind could be 10 minutes progress wasted. So it may be a valid option but i would concede that it's annoying.

OF course as you say, the boats are moored fore and aft there so that the OP couldn't pass between them then the same would also apply to the dinghy so the need to tack should have been anticipated. The dinghy can't pass between solid boats or mooring lines anymore than any other boat can.

In many ways, dealing with tacking dinghies in that situation is far easier as you know precisely WHERE they will tack. just get u close behind them, wait for them to tack out of the way and give a modicum of welly. Similar to over taking a tractor on a country road.

 

[philld]

I'm based at Fambridge Yacht Station. The river is about 600 ft wide from the pontoon to the opposite (southern) bank at low tide. There are five rows of swinging moorings, the smaller boats tend to be on the northern rows, the bigger boats are on the southern rows.

I've never had any difficulties taking my 40 ft yacht across the moorings from the pontoon to my mooring (upstream next to the southern bank) under any state of tide. I've seen boats like Jeanneau 2000s tack up through the moorings, obviously they were being handled by racing crews, but it does give some idea of the spacing. I'd also point out that there can be quite a current running through the boats, any thing up to a couple of knots, which can make things more interesting.

I've regularly seen kids swimming, and paddling boards from the south bank during the summer when I've been on board. I've even seen visitors dive off their boats, which is not something I'd do considering the colour of the water. Obviously I've seen a lot of tenders on the water, and I'm surprised I've not seen any dinghies this year considering there are at least three dinghy clubs upstream and a couple downstream. In addition, there appears to be a few kayakers using Fambridge these days.

From OPs description, it sounds like he did everything right. However, it can be quite exciting in a small boat when you suddenly find a big motor cruiser bearing down on you, which might explain the crews reaction. After all, if he couldn't see the dinghy till the last moment, why should the dinghy's crew have seen him?

Final thought for the OP, I'd treat this as a learning experience. What could you have done differently to avoid the situation?

 

[Resolution]

If you are proceeding upstream say 15' from the moored boats and a sailing dinghy appears from between them on your port bow what action can you reasonably take?

No room to alter course to port - not much scope to turn to starboard as that won't prevent collision - putting the engine in neutral will not slow you down enough, put it hard astern and the prop wash will leave you slewed across the channel.

Then add in the usual sunday afternoon procession of boats in both directions....

In such circumstances I am certainly a vessel in a narrow channel so the dinghies are required not to impede my passage - i.e. not to force me to take avoiding action when I cannot safely do so.

If you consider yourself to be a vessel constrained by your draught, do you ensure that you exhibit the appropriate shape* so that other vessels can be aware of your restricted ability to move off your course? I know that showing the shape in daylight is optional, not compulsory, but it is difficult to see how one could complain if you are NOT showing the shape.

* A cylinder at least 0.6 metre in diameter and at least 1.2 metres in height.

 

[bedouin]

If you consider yourself to be a vessel constrained by your draught, do you ensure that you exhibit the appropriate shape* so that other vessels can be aware of your restricted ability to move off your course? I know that showing the shape in daylight is optional, not compulsory, but it is difficult to see how one could complain if you are NOT showing the shape.

* A cylinder at least 0.6 metre in diameter and at least 1.2 metres in height.

Rule 9 - no day shape required.

 

[Resolution]

Rule 9 - no day shape required.

As I said "I know that showing the shape in daylight is optional, not compulsory, but it is difficult to see how one could complain if you are NOT showing the shape."
How else do you make it clear to other channel users that your particular boat is constrained by draught?

Actually, from what the OP has written, I suspect that draught is NOT the constraint, but a simple inability to manoeuvre with precision at low speeds typical with shallow V hulls and single screw power. Does Rule 9 then apply? To my reading it is a bit unclear.

 

[bedouin]

As I said "I know that showing the shape in daylight is optional, not compulsory, but it is difficult to see how one could complain if you are NOT showing the shape."
How else do you make it clear to other channel users that your particular boat is constrained by draught?

Actually, from what the OP has written, I suspect that draught is NOT the constraint, but a simple inability to manoeuvre with precision at low speeds typical with shallow V hulls and single screw power. Does Rule 9 then apply? To my reading it is a bit unclear.

Rule 9 is narrow channels not constrained by draught and in the example we diverted to it certainly applies - less clear whether it applies in the OPs case - I don't know the area but you could argue that for a typical size boat any river is a narrow channel.

 

[Bru]

At these moorings the boats are tied up in lines, very tight lines, & stern to nose, again tight. Never seen any one swim , board or anything else there as the would be mad to to so. .

You need to spend more time at the Yacht Station then!

Swimmers, often. There's one old boy who swims there two or three times a week and others do to

Paddle boarders are a regular feature too - there's a group of pleasant lads from South Fambridge who often paddle board over the river, have a spot of lunch and then paddle back again. Canoes are regular visitors as well

The moorings are not tight, there's ample room to tack even a fairly large yacht between them. Indeed, the start / finish line for the racing is right in the middle of the moorings and always has been.

There are, on a busy weekend, numerous small dinghies and flubbers puttering about or under oars as there are over 120 moorings (and rising) out there

There is no depth constraint anywhere. Boats can pass through the moorings anywhere from the South bank to close in to the river pontoon. Although there is no defined fairway (something I have been and continue to be critical of), the best option is to pass between the South bank and the first trot of moorings

I'm not inclined to make any specific comments as I didn't witness the incident in question. All I will say is that small boats suddenly appearing out of thin air is not unusual in amongst moorings. Whilst the boat in this question was a small sailing dinghy, it could equally well have been an even smaller rowing tender. The OP appears to have acted properly and avoided the dinghy, I'd just shrug and move on as far as the apparent churlishness of the dinghy crew is concerned

 

[NealB]

I don't know the area but you could argue that for a typical size boat any river is a narrow channel.

Sorry, I think that is a totally absurd argument.

At Fambridge, at Burnham, on the tidal Thames, on many of the rivers where I have sailed: there is plenty of room, to manoeuvre, and apply the 'colregs' (I'm assuming you've not got your own supertanker).

I accept that Itchenor has less space, but I've been up and down there many times, too, over the years, and have never had any difficulty in giving way to sailing boats there.

Come to Burnham and see dinghies, Dragons, Squibs, RCODs, RBODs, H707s, various cruiser classes, all racing together through the moorings. There's people in kayaks, people in tenders, people in skiffs, people on paddle boards.

It's not a problem. It's a great spectacle, and great fun.

It requires:

-a good look out by all (it is, in my experience, quite possible to spot even small sailing dinghies and tenders in amongst moorings: but it requires active vigilance)

- anticipating as best you can, the actions of other water users, bearing in mind any problems/ limitations that they might have

- having good control of your own boat, and knowing how it handles

- leaving any road rage type of attitude ashore: we all have equal rights to use these rivers

Then we can all play happily together.

But .....

Fambridge? A narrow channel for the average motor boat (including sailing boats under power)?

Perrrrlease ....pull the other one!

 

[Resolution]

It's not a problem. It's a great spectacle, and great fun.

It requires:

-a good look out by all (it is, in my experience, quite possible to spot even small sailing dinghies and tenders in amongst moorings: but it requires active vigilance)

- anticipating as best you can, the actions of other water users, bearing in mind any problems/ limitations that they might have

- having good control of your own boat, and knowing how it handles

- leaving any road rage type of attitude ashore: we all have equal rights to use these rivers

Then we can all play happily together.

Very much agree with these comments, based on many years of using the Hamble.

 

[jac]

I'm based at Fambridge Yacht Station. The river is about 600 ft wide from the pontoon to the opposite (southern) bank at low tide. There are five rows of swinging moorings, the smaller boats tend to be on the northern rows, the bigger boats are on the southern rows.

I've never had any difficulties taking my 40 ft yacht across the moorings from the pontoon to my mooring (upstream next to the southern bank) under any state of tide. I've seen boats like Jeanneau 2000s tack up through the moorings, obviously they were being handled by racing crews, but it does give some idea of the spacing. I'd also point out that there can be quite a current running through the boats, any thing up to a couple of knots, which can make things more interesting.

I've regularly seen kids swimming, and paddling boards from the south bank during the summer when I've been on board. I've even seen visitors dive off their boats, which is not something I'd do considering the colour of the water. Obviously I've seen a lot of tenders on the water, and I'm surprised I've not seen any dinghies this year considering there are at least three dinghy clubs upstream and a couple downstream. In addition, there appears to be a few kayakers using Fambridge these days.

From OPs description, it sounds like he did everything right. However, it can be quite exciting in a small boat when you suddenly find a big motor cruiser bearing down on you, which might explain the crews reaction. After all, if he couldn't see the dinghy till the last moment, why should the dinghy's crew have seen him?

Final thought for the OP, I'd treat this as a learning experience. What could you have done differently to avoid the situation?

That's a really useful description. It confirms what the Google Earth images and the Yacht Haven drone video suggest, i.e. a wide channel, roughly 15 boat lengths wide with no continuous obstructions. From Rubberducks description I was expecting somethin more akin to the Hamble or some of the broads rivers - a channel maybe 3 boat lengths wide with continuous line of boats or shore that give the user no real options.

Picking up on your last question to the OP, I think my advice to the OP would be :
1) to ensure that you know how much space you have got to play with - i.e. how close can you get to the bank so that you can act instinctively if something unexpected happens.
2) Ask yourself - what would I do if x happens now. So in moorings like that - what would I do if a swimmer suddenly appeared 1 boat length ahead of me
3) Know ( and practice) how your boat handles at low speed in different conditions to give you confidence when you need it.