Volvo Penta Chocolate Teapot Gearboxes ?

[oldgit]

Have spoken to a number of Princess 35 owners ,past and present,who have had gearbox problems, one unfortunate chap had three go over the years.
Anybody care to indicate which box was problematic and what if anything can be visually inspected to give indication of any latent problems.

My Velvet Drive boxes have neat little dip stick easily enabling one to check colour of oil.
All comments welcome.

 

[rafiki_]

Have spoken to a number of Princess 35 owners ,past and present,who have had gearbox problems, one unfortunate chap had three go over the years.
Anybody care to indicate which box was problematic and what if anything can be visually inspected to give indication of any latent problems.

My Velvet Drive boxes have neat little dip stick easily enabling one to check colour of oil.
All comments welcome.

OG, you should switch to outdrives, much more reliable

 

[[2068]]

Volvo Penta don't make gearboxes.
But ZF and HS Marine, do.

If you really want a VP gearbox, you will have to get a Sterndrive

 

[Divemaster1]

The standard MS4 gearbox (mechanical MS2, 3 and 4 were delivered in that era pending engine HP)... and believe that gears cracked/broke and at times gear did not engage properly (thus failing to rotate propshaft).... Nor sure what you visually can inspect, but if I were considering a boat with a MS4 gearbox, where everything else was OK, I would calculate in replacement hydraulic gearbox(es) and offer up a price which reflected that....

Edit: also believe the MS2, 3 & 4 needed synthetic oil .... and owners may not have used correct oil during change/top-up...

 

[superheat6k]

What engine ?

My last boat had TMD40 with MS3B box, which I thought was VP. I would expect an older Princess 35 might have something similar.

Due to some fool not properly doing up the output coupling retaining nut said nut unscrewed and the rear shaft assembly fell out allowing the entire shaft to move backwards. This wrecked the output shaft bearing, but fortunately little other damage.

Could not find a manual, so I wrote one.

Having thoroughly familiarised myself with the inner workings I thought i was OK.

Have Twin Disc MG502 now - jury still out on these. Manuals available if of use to you.

 

[oldgit]

What engine ?

The gearbox concerned would have been fitted to either the 200HP or 165 HP engine fitted to the Princess 35.
Assume it would also have been installed into other Princess boats of that era ?

I were considering a boat with a MS4 gearbox, where everything else was OK, I would calculate in replacement hydraulic gearbox(es) and offer up a price which reflected that....

My thoughts exactly.Decent used/recon box appears to be around £1500 ?.

 

[Latestarter1]

The gearbox concerned would have been fitted to either the 200HP or 165 HP engine fitted to the Princess 35.
Assume it would also have been installed into other Princess boats of that era ?


My thoughts exactly.Decent used/recon box appears to be around £1500 ?.

In this power node ZF 63 formerly the old 630 A1 is the only way to go, however would require engine mounting re-alignment and probably new shafts, not a simple bolt up job.

Never had any luck with equivalent Velvet Drive the 5000 Series, cooked up more than a few of those. Liberty versions are SUPPOSED to be better however who wants to be a guinea pig.

 

[Avalon]

Interesting stuff. I'm in the process of buying a P35 which has 200hp TAMD41A engines and (I believe) MS4 gearboxes. I'd be really interested to know if there are any checks or tests I can do during the sea trial, which might forewarn me of any imminent problems. I would guess that as mechanical gearboxes there will be a noticeable clunk when the gear is engaged but they should then be fairly silent in operation.

Here are a couple of pics to aid identification.





Thanks.

 

[Trundlebug]

I have MS4 gearboxes but mated to puny naturally aspirated VP MD31A engines at only 65hp.
Therefore quite under-stressed in my application, however I should think when mated to 200hp they are probably at the upper end of what they can take, hence the poorer reliability.

So far, (touching wood and crossing fingers) I haven't had any problems, but I now change the oil regularly. Either every year or 2 years max.
The previous owner didn't change the oil in about 7 years and it was black, but after a few changes it has flushed out nicely and doesn't really need changing every year now.

Smooth enough in operation, the only time they clunk is if going from forward drive straight into reverse without allowing the shaft to stop in between.
Generally it's a very gentle (and almost silent) clunk when engaged at idle.

Edit: Engines (& gearboxes) have done nearly 2000 hours now on a 1988 boat.

 

[oldgit]

Arrghh...OMG Nooooo ...It true ....top half of a manky olde outdrive.

 

[Divemaster1]

Arrghh...OMG Nooooo ...It true ....top half of a manky olde outdrive.

... it's just the first step towards the dark side .... gearbox first, then full outdrive .... and the next is saildrive ...

 

[volvopaul]

MS3/4were fitted to early tamd40.

MS4/5 go tamd 41 series motor .
Cone clutch and associated gears similar to top gearbox on out drive with short vertical shaft to bevel gear to give final drive ratio and down angle. A good unit if looked after.
Kad 42 went on to use hs 63.

Hs63 can be a swap as ms boxes NLA from vp now , some parts also NLA.

Look for slipping cone, long time engagement from selection and oil leaks , check for emulsified oil as it has a raw water cooled matix inside the rear housing .

 

[oldgit]

MS3/4were fitted to early tamd40.

MS4/5 go tamd 41 series motor .
Cone clutch and associated gears similar to top gearbox on out drive with short vertical shaft to bevel gear to give final drive ratio and down angle. A good unit if looked after.
Kad 42 went on to use hs 63. Hs63 can be a swap as ms boxes NLA from vp now , some parts also NLA.
Look for slipping cone, long time engagement from selection and oil leaks , check for emulsified oil as it has a raw water cooled matix inside the rear housing .

Thanks Paul.
Off to look at P35 in morning, starter for 100 will be to ask them as to when the pencil anodes in the heat exchangers were last renewed.......... Should be interesting

 

[Avalon]

If you want to avoid the choccy teapot gearboxes you might be interested in this P35 in Portugal with 250hp Cummins. Good price too.

http://pt.cosasdebarcos.com/barco_39745120131848535056485250514567.html

 

[boatingdave]

I don't know what gear boxes are in my P415 but never had any trouble with them. I've had boats with stern drives but they have higher maintenance costs IMHO. Prefer shafts.
OG, could you not get a bigger mooring, could do you a good deal lol.......
Boats are very subjective, each to their own.

 

[oldgit]

I don't know what gear boxes are in my P415 but never had any trouble with them. I've had boats with stern drives but they have higher maintenance costs IMHO. Prefer shafts.
OG, could you not get a bigger mooring, could do you a good deal lol.......
Boats are very subjective, each to their own.

My current mooring fee is £ 900. PA and diesel at 96p

 

[oldgit]

If you want to avoid the choccy teapot gearboxes you might be interested in this P35 in Portugal with 250hp Cummins. Good price too.

http://pt.cosasdebarcos.com/barco_39745120131848535056485250514567.html

H,mm have just emailed them !

 

[boatmike]

Interesting stuff. I'm in the process of buying a P35 which has 200hp TAMD41A engines and (I believe) MS4 gearboxes. I'd be really interested to know if there are any checks or tests I can do during the sea trial, which might forewarn me of any imminent problems. I would guess that as mechanical gearboxes there will be a noticeable clunk when the gear is engaged but they should then be fairly silent in operation.

Here are a couple of pics to aid identification.





Thanks.

Yes these are MS4a boxes. I bought a boat with 2 of these, one I stripped and rebuilt with new bearings, seals and other parts. Both had seals gone on output shafts which causes them to run dry. I am chartered mechanical engineer and this was a difficult enough job for me. Not job for amateur! Check oil level and leaks from shaft. Check ease of operation of engagement by hand. Reject if not happy. Box now obsolete and replacement impossible

 

[Wavey]

After the hassle I had with these gearboxes on my previous boat I wouldn't go near another one that had them fitted. In the end I cut my losses and replaced them with a pair of TechMarine boxes (IIRC). The two cost me the same as VP had charged me to refurb one. Did require the engines to be moved back a couple of inches as the boxes were slightly shorter but well worth it in the end for peace of mind.

 

[boatingdave]

My current mooring fee is £ 900. PA and diesel at 96p

Have I mentioned I have a chain saw and some gel repair? Anyway, I have a lovely custom P33 1/3 for sale. Nice Diesel engines. Nearly one whole berth (now). It has a spacious full width bow.