Volvo KAD32 and stern drives

[blacklablover]

I am new to the motor boating world and despite reading lots of information I still lack knowledge. For financial reasons I am looking at boats from the early noughties and I recently asked for some information on a boat that had a pair of KAD 32’S. The broker notified me that they had been serviced by the owner in 2017 for which there were receipts. I had no issue with this but I received no info whatsoever with regards to the stern drives/legs despite having requested this.
I realise any boat of this age will require ongoing maintenance costs but issues around the stern drives appear to be expensive and frequent. Are there any publications that detail maintenance schedules for the drives that would help me in the future in order that I can assess whether they have been maintained correctly?
The older engines appear to be owner service friendly but for anything more detailed I would use a qualified engineer. In the last instance, info supplied regarding service of the engines but lacking similar info re maintenance of the drives caused me some concern. Perhaps I worried unnecessarily but sadly that is my nature.
I would be truly grateful for any information/pointers.

 

[volvopaul]

I am new to the motor boating world and despite reading lots of information I still lack knowledge. For financial reasons I am looking at boats from the early noughties and I recently asked for some information on a boat that had a pair of KAD 32’S. The broker notified me that they had been serviced by the owner in 2017 for which there were receipts. I had no issue with this but I received no info whatsoever with regards to the stern drives/legs despite having requested this.
I realise any boat of this age will require ongoing maintenance costs but issues around the stern drives appear to be expensive and frequent. Are there any publications that detail maintenance schedules for the drives that would help me in the future in order that I can assess whether they have been maintained correctly?
The older engines appear to be owner service friendly but for anything more detailed I would use a qualified engineer. In the last instance, info supplied regarding service of the engines but lacking similar info re maintenance of the drives caused me some concern. Perhaps I worried unnecessarily but sadly that is my nature.
I would be truly grateful for any information/pointers.

Best option is to have a mechanical survey before you buy .

 

[blacklablover]

Thanks for the reply. I most definitely would have surveys carried out but I am interested in trying to work out if the owners have maintained them to whatever schedule is applicable if there is one. I realise I may find a few dogs prior to purchase but I was hoping to minimise the number of lift outs. I know I won’t be able to see the drives/legs without lifting the boat out of the water but I would have thought a question or two of the owner would give me a heads up as to the likely condition.
There are a few boats in my local marina that are not taken out of the water even for anti fouling etc but at least you can see the mess beneath the water line which indicates the total lack of maintenance. Of course I bet they are lifted out for a clean should they go on the for sale market and any unsuspecting purchaser would never know the state they were in without asking the pertinent questions

 

[mcanderson]

What he said.

 

[simonfraser]

Stern drives left in (salt) water for any length of time with cost you significant money as you point out.
By the sounds of it you are looking at a boat with two, so that is 2x the cost.
Even IF it has all been done by the book they take time money and effort to look after.
You might want to enquire on here what we recon they cost to maintain per year.

 

[Momac]

I have kad32, s with sterndrives on my present boat for 5 years and 500 hours.
Previous boat was single kad32. I put 600 hours on that over 6 years with no expensive issues.
I have good engine access on my present boat. The engines are easy to do basic oil and filter changes and impellers. I have in the past paid for service work and would do so for any significant intrusive work.
One turbo required rebuild which was probably down to corrosion from lack of use by the first owner. Other than that nothing other than oil and filters annually. Last impellers survived 3 years but I think 2 years is to be expected. Belts have been on 4 years and seem okay. Genuine Volvo Penta belts should be used.

I have the boat lifted every two years for sterndrive oil change and anodes. The bellows will probably need to be changed next time as a precautionary measure. One trim pump failed and had to be replaced. Other than that there have been no expensive issues to date.

My boat is kept on fresh water with occasional salty water trips including 3 weeks holiday on salt water in the summer.

Although neglect if service is a bad thing I think full service history records seem unusual. I have no doubt that some people do little or no service work which will almost certainly lead to a large expense at some point . I keep a log in a notebook of all expenses and a file with receipts.

 

[petem]

The service regime for the legs can be found in the KAD32 engine manual. The most important thing is that the bellows are changed every 2-3 years. Don't be tempted to get non Volvo bellows as they don't last and you'll end up with a drive full of emulsified oil.

If you're in any doubt about the quality of servicing of the legs then have the bellows and the seals changed plus a careful check of the condition of the shafts.

It's also worth checking the oil for contamination every time the boat is lifted.

 

[petem]

I have the boat lifted every two years for sterndrive oil change and anodes. The bellows will probably need to be changed next time as a precautionary measure. One trim pump failed and had to be replaced. Other than that there have been no expensive issues to date.

Personally, I think this is too long between lifts, general consensus is that anodes won't last longer than a year and I also like to check the state of the oil in the drive at least yearly. But if it works for you then fine!

 

[ari]

Stern drives left in (salt) water for any length of time with cost you significant money as you point out.

Will they? On what sort of things?

 

[kashurst]

the key to long life on boat engines is proper servicing and regular checks. However good servicing requires good access, so what ever boats you are interested in check out the engine access ALL around the engine. All boats can have access issues but some are a lot worse than others. Some stern drive boats can be a pig to work on especially at the rear of the engine. Boats of the age you are considering will likely be needing new/recon turbos. (they corrode because of the wet exhaust systems). Something to look for on the boats history.
If service items are hard to get at, they may not get changed as per manufacturers recommendations. Even if "professionally" serviced with bills doesn't prove its been done correctly. There are a lot of muppet boat technicians out there.

Outdrives are a mixed blessing - more efficient, faster boats, sportier drive but at a price which may not be worth it if you do less than @ 500 fast cruising miles a year. You can do your own servicing on outdrives, but you do need to be good with the spanners. Internal rebuilds are for the professionals really. It is very difficult to tell if an out drive has been properly serviced through its life without taking it apart if there are no service receipts. As you pointed out a good clean/paint and some new oil and anodes and they look good to go, but there could still be serious issues inside that no-one can see until the unit is stripped down. Something to watch for is prompt gear engagement, if there is a noticeable delay in selecting forward or reverse the cone clutches are getting worn.
Outdrives are vulnerable to shaft seals damaged by fishing line, water getting in, hydraulic ram seal failure, gear selector cables getting stiff/worn which if ignored can damage the electric actuators - any of which can cause real damage to your wallet. However they are very popular especially on sports boats.

Shaft drive boats tend to need far far less servicing on the gearbox and shaft etc but do occasionally (5 to 10 years possibly longer) need new cutlass bearings in the P brackets. The cutlass bearings are pretty cheap but fitting is a boat out the water job. However even if heavily worn the boat will still work OK. The gearboxes need oil changes every few years and tend to last a very long time.
Downside is they use more fuel - have a think about how you will use the boat, how many miles you will typically do a year, do the maths, then add in how much is peace of mind worth to you.

A good service history with bills is always preferable, a DIY serviced boats with bills for parts can be better as the owner is usually not in a rush and will be looking for minor issues all the time and hopefully correcting them. However I have bought boats with no history at all and they have been OK. Previous boat had been professionally serviced its' whole life and was terrible. Get an engine survey and a hard sea trial - drive it flat out and see what happens.

Before you go and look at any boat ask to see the original VAT receipt. (or a decent copy) and the recent bills of sale. The UK VAT people are very unlikely to come and check, but when you come to sell the boat in future it can be a real problem if you do not have it.

 

[Greg2]

Some good advice here already, which I won’t repeat. On kashurt’s point about outdrives v shafts I wouldn’t necessarily disagree but it is worth saying that at a certain size of boat outdrives enable improved accommodation and shafts are less common/available.

Our last boat was a larger shaft driven boat but when downsizing outdrives were the most common option so we ended up with an S34 with KAD32s and outdrives and we are very happy with our choice.

On worn clutch cones a good sign when putting them into gear is a noticeable ‘clunk’ - perhaps counterintuitive but this is a good sign that all is well.

 

[blacklablover]

Thank you all so much for the above replies as I find them very helpful and whilst still lacking experience I certainly feel more comfortable going to view any potential boats now due to the detailed information and advice you have kindly given.
I am very grateful to everyone for taking the time to reply and giving me the benefit of your experience.

 

[simonfraser]

somethings to add
'Boats of the age you are considering will likely be needing new/recon turbos. (they corrode because of the wet exhaust systems)'
yep, the exhaust elbows corrode and start to leak water into the turbo

'hydraulic ram seal failure'
barnies on the shafts chew up the seals, these are difficult / expensive to fix

you can / will have growth inside the aft cover of the drives, this is where the gear lever and cable is, not conducive to smooth function - surveyor is unlikely to check this out for wear and tear

none of this should necessarily put you off, but as said a survey won't guarantee significant unforseen bills
if you budget for those, or rinse the KAD and drives and keep her on a trailer as i do, enjoy the boat

 

[Momac]

Personally, I think this is too long between lifts, general consensus is that anodes won't last longer than a year and I also like to check the state of the oil in the drive at least yearly. But if it works for you then fine!

Yes it does work for me.
My boat is kept on fresh water so corrosion is much less than boats kept on salt water.
The anodes do last two years or longer.

 

[ari]

'hydraulic ram seal failure'
barnies on the shafts chew up the seals, these are difficult / expensive to fix

Easily avoided though by always leaving the outdrives trimmed right in, that way the exposed parts of the rams never pass the seals (unless you mean steering rams in which case rubber gaiters are the answer).

 

[Bigplumbs]

Also be aware that much of the advice you will receive on here on this sort of subject can easily put you off buying.

Very people post on here when things go well and have small costs to pay.

Happy looking and don't let people put you off stern drives or you choice will be hugely limited

 

[Bbroomlea]

We had a 2002 S28 for 6 years with this set up and never had a moments bother with either engines or drives. I used to lift every 18-24 months for anodes, gear oil etc. and replace bellows every 4. This is on Windermere so kind to bellows! On the sea or brackish water I would expect much more often. No issues with anything other than needing new props due to pitting before I bought the boat and a slight altercation with a rocky bottom !

Engines serviced every year at the start of the season - all filters etc. and every other year crankcase breathers and impellers. Coolant was done once when it needed doing.

Our old boat is still for sale at NYA actually - thought it would have sold by now as its in very good condition. Maybe they are asking a bit much or not motivated to deal with it being a stock boat

 

[Momac]

don't let people put you off stern drives or you choice will be hugely limited

I agree.
The alternative of shaft drive ,although having some advantages,is not completely trouble free. A friend had a broken bell housing and damaged gearbox after lightly clipping an underwater object.