Volvo engines KAD32 vs. D3-160

[ReneJK]

Hi Guys
I've been lurking / reading the forum for a few months and finally registered not too long ago. Now I am looking at buying a 24ft Karnic boat (2460) with a diesel engine

Now I have found 2 identical boats , one with a KAD32 engine (2003) with 300 hours and one from 2005 with a D3-160 engine, also 300 hours

now for my questions, which of the 2 engines (with equal & proper maint.) would be the "better" engine ?

also , what would fuel consumption be on a 24Ft , 2000Kg boat for each engine
?
are spare part prices and service prices equal ?

the Z-drive on the D3-160 is the SX (single drive) and on the KAD32 its the dual prop , how is the drive quality of volvo ? (I only know Merc Alpha drives)

Thanks and I am looking fwd to all knowledge the forumites are able to share

Rgds
-Rene

 

[neale]

As no-one else has answered, I'll give you my opinion. Bear in mind someone, somewhere will almost certainly give the exact opposite answer!!

I re-engined my Bayliner back in 2005. I had the opportunity to buy the one of the very last KAD32's or one of the very early D3 160hp. I chose the KAD32 because:

1. Rumour has it that it produces nearer 190hp, so more than just 10hp difference.

2. Proven technology, been around a few years with no regular major problems.

3. More simple technology, something I like in a boat engine.

4. Duo prop drive over single prop for better performance and low speed manoeuvring.

Despite having old technology, possibly affecting re-sale, I am still pleased with my choice. The boat weighs around 2 ton and I get 30 knots and average around 4 mpg and burn around 5 gph at 22-23 knots. There were also some initial problems with early D3's which should have been sorted by now, although some may still be lurking out there.

 

[PCUK]

Although I haven't experienced either engine in my search for a new boat I have been told that the early D-3s had some serious problems. So I would agree with Neale and go for the KAD which I have not heard anything bad about. (Yet!!!)
Spares will be equally expensive for both engines unless you buy the same parts with a different name on them! Remember that Volvo do not make filters, belts, bearings etc. etc. they just buy them in, so if you do the same you will save a fortune!

 

[alt]

KAD32 all the way for me - a less complex engine, less electronics etc. In summary, LESS TO GO WRONG. I have had 2 KAD32's now and I love them, so much infact that i'm going to stick with KAD engines for as long as possible

 

[pissativlypossed]

Would you buy a 20 year old Ford Sierra or a current model Mondeo?

Volvo spend fortunes on engine development and the electronics to control them make them far more efficient and reliable then the older engines, the D range of engines have been around long enough now to have had any teething troubles ironed out.

We have D6-310's and did have some initial issues, ours being one of the first UK boats with them installed, but (touch wood) nothing untoward has happened for a while.

 

[scottie]

32-160

Kad32 and check the belts and idler pulleys

 

[spannerman]

As a Volvo technician of 20+yrs, I'd go for the KAD in your situiation, its a much simpler engine, OK so its not hi-tech common rail injection, but then again you can fix it yourself and it will tolerate much more than a D3. We had a Karnic in last week with a D3 and it was a nightmare to work on as it filled the engine bay, we had to take the engine out as some of the bolts on the flywheel had broken. And the electrics looked very dodgy due to bad maintainance.
Also the Duoprop on a KAD is a far better drive than an SX alround, but especially when going astern.

 

[ReneJK]

Hi Guys,

thanks very much for your input ! , I'll be looking at both boats 2 week \s from now and if all things really are the same I must say that ALT's and Spannerman's remarks push me in the KAD direction

If I buy either one i'll let you know here

 

[BartW]

Hi Rene,

last year I have bought a brand new Karnic 2660 with twin D3-190 SX
having done almost 300hrs sinds then, without any major problem, I am very happy with them.

but honestly speaking, I can agree with most arguments in other posts, pro Kad engines,

I am curious about how the electronics will behave in a year or 3 from now, on the D3 engines.
we all now what the salty and wet environment does to electronic cabling and contacts,
so from that point I am sure you're better off with the KAD.

I have chosen the single prop for the following reasons:
- weight, I am really on the edge of a towable boat (weight is 3.8ton inclusive trailer)
- I change prop regulary, I have a spare pair of props with one step more pitch, for long distance / little load cruising (higher speed, lower fuel consumption)
- I am used to damage props every now and then, (tides in holland / zeeland) a single prop replacement is much cheaper then DP
- the better acceleration of DP is of no importance for me as I am overpowered anyway
- lo speed manouvring is OK with the twin setup

comparison of speed and fuel consumption is not possible with the single engine in a slightly smaller boat, but just for your info:
cunsumption is 40l/hr total of both engines
max speed is 40 kn
cruising at 3000RPM is 25 or 30kn (depending on prop)

difficult choise, perhaps in your case I would choose KAD engines

good luck with your choice !

 

[volvopaul]

Im just doing some quotes for servicing kad 32 and d3 the kads are a lot cheaper, ive just been to our local dealer they have a d3 in bits that wont start, they have spent days investigating with the vodia tool and nothing is showing up wrong that has not been investigated before, there have been many warranty issues with the d3, IMHo I would go for the kad simple engine any day, keep away from modern engines that rely on too much hi tech electrical tech that makes it run as wiring, sensor and multiplugs dont work well in sea water, and thats what has happened to this one.

 

[poltergeist]

Would you buy a 20 year old Ford Sierra or a current model Mondeo?

Volvo spend fortunes on engine development and the electronics to control them make them far more efficient and reliable then the older engines, the D range of engines have been around long enough now to have had any teething troubles ironed out.

.

I think you are making the mistake that newer always means better - not always true I'm afraid.

Heard so many horror stories concerning the EDC/EVC electronics, it has put me off even considering a boat that is equipped with it.

KAD 32's are great engines - relatively simple, hardy & as mentioned, very conservatively rated in regards their power output.. Mine (touch wood) have been great so far - more reliable then i could have hoped for considering the harsh environment they are expected to live/work in. The later D series certainly didn't get off to the best of starts - doesn't mean they are bad, but I would only consider them once their reputation has been a little more proven.

 

[ReneJK]

BartW,
I have read your story and how you choose for the engines with much interest , 1 because of the engines and 2 because of the boat choice I am a Karnic Fan myself , started with the 190 (2050) up to a 210 (2250) and now a 2260 with 4.3L V6

We use the boat mainly in holland (we live in amsterdam) , the northsea and in Croatia during 3 weeks vacation

But during the last vacation in Croatia I wanted a larger boat (w/ fridge!! for cold beer!! , and seperate sleeping qtrs) with a diesel engine for larger range .. and have decided to stay with Karnic and this time go for the 2460 with a nice blue hull
but as I found 2 for sale with 2 different engines I had to ask here

 

[gimmesunshine]

being in electronics manufacturing i would say steer clear of electronics, boats and salt water engines and vibration is not good mix
in my mind i would be more worried come fault finding in 5-6 years time once initial teething problems are sorted from new
i ve never heard of in herent problems with kad's
think the most notable has to hours meter which is electronics ... which volvo got wrong !

 

[Chris_d]

Just to add my own two penny worth of biased opinion, i'd go for the KAD for all the reasons stated above, but also because the D3 boat will probably be a bit underpowered.
Its well known that the KAD32 is conservatively rated at 170hp and puts out nearer 190hp. I understood that many manufacturers were initialy specifying twin D3-160's in place of twin KAD32's thinking they would give similar performance, but this proved not to be the case and Volvo failry quickly released the D3-190 to make up the difference.
Any 22ft boat is going to struggle a bit with only 160hp when loaded, so its got to be the KAD boat, also the duoprop helps with acceleration and getting onto the plane.

 

[BartW]

BartW,
I have read your story and how you choose for the engines with much interest , 1 because of the engines and 2 because of the boat choice I am a Karnic Fan myself , started with the 190 (2050) up to a 210 (2250) and now a 2260 with 4.3L V6

We use the boat mainly in holland (we live in amsterdam) , the northsea and in Croatia during 3 weeks vacation

But during the last vacation in Croatia I wanted a larger boat (w/ fridge!! for cold beer!! , and seperate sleeping qtrs) with a diesel engine for larger range .. and have decided to stay with Karnic and this time go for the 2460 with a nice blue hull
but as I found 2 for sale with 2 different engines I had to ask here

René,

apparantly you have the same cruising area as we have,
this year we were 4 weeks in Croatia (Dubrovnic area), 7 weekends in zeeland, and two weekends diving in the Northsea.

I have chosen this Karnic as it is the only boat with the following specs
- walk around model with large open deck (space for scuba tanks or table or sunbed)
- big swim platform with easy acces
- midcabin (with the canopy we can occasionally sleep six on this boat)
- twin Diesel engine (when we go on the Northsea)
- and still trailable: beam 2.6m and weight 3.5T (???)

we have put in many extra's, 2 fridge, atlantic Radar Arch, 230V invertor, extra handles and furniture, ....
and I am VERY happy with this boat and the engines
still have to post some pictures from recent activity's,
you'r welcome if you want more info / details.

best rgds

 

[ReneJK]

KAD 32 engine pics

Does anything stand out like a sore thumb in these pics ?

 

[Chris_d]

Thats going to be a bit hard to work on, unless there's another way into the engine space, I'd pass on that boat myself as I doubt its ever had a proper service.

 

[novanta]

Well, if you buy this boat, check the valve clearance, change the compressor oil, all the belts ánd the tension rollers, change the cooling liquid, and grease up the grease nippel on the transom plate for the steering lever.

I will bet that everything i mentioned was never done.


Turbo looks a bit rusty, so have a good look there and also on the transom plate. Something you can't see is easy to forget to service....

 

[alt]

Very tight engine bay, similar to a boat I had before. Servicing was a nightmare, especially the impeller (had to take off the pump surround thing and do it that way)

 

[carlton]

Good grief! I complain about access to my engines, but I have considerably better access than that.

I'm sure it's a lovely boat, but it appears to have been built around the engine. I'd have thought you'd have to dismantle great lumps of it just to be able to get into the engine bay.