Volvo 2002: why does oil spit out of dipstick?

third engines said:
Do you remember my recent quote concerning an engineer that destroyed a small oboard by overzealous use of fogging oil? See #6 post of this discussion last paragraph and put 2+2 together. I may be totally wrong but the story smacks of his modus operandi.
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Yes, i remember it.

But the focus of this thread has shifted solely to the oil coming from the dipstick. The OP mentions this, but he also means smoke, excess pressure when the filler is removed and a film of oil in his bilges. Given that, i'd be investigation rings and bore.

His question was " But if there is evidence that oil is blowing past rings in what circumstances could this not indicate the need for more extensive work than just a head job? "

My answer is therefore twofold.

a) If there is blow by, it will certainly need other work than a head job.

b) Nothing in the symptoms described suggests the need for a head job.

I'd say investigate the crankcase compression and whilst doing so check things like the head.
 
PaulRainbow said:
Yes, i remember it.

But the focus of this thread has shifted solely to the oil coming from the dipstick. The OP mentions this, but he also means smoke, excess pressure when the filler is removed and a film of oil in his bilges. Given that, i'd be investigation rings and bore.

His question was " But if there is evidence that oil is blowing past rings in what circumstances could this not indicate the need for more extensive work than just a head job? "

My answer is therefore twofold.

a) If there is blow by, it will certainly need other work than a head job.

b) Nothing in the symptoms described suggests the need for a head job.

I'd say investigate the crankcase compression and whilst doing so check things like the head.
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But you miss the point. He has been told this by his "engineer"

By the way, said "engineer" claims to have fitted over 200 new "ALPHA" engines a couple of years ago and can command 45% discount from "ALPHA"

Led and garden path come to mind.

A head job is relatively easy and comes with good revenue with little effort.
 
third engines said:
But you miss the point. He has been told this by his "engineer"

By the way, said "engineer" claims to have fitted over 200 new "ALPHA" engines a couple of years ago and can command 45% discount from "ALPHA"

Led and garden path come to mind.

A head job is relatively easy and comes with good revenue with little effort.
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We don't actually know who the engineer is.

Besides, i dare say the OP has seen the smoke and oil in the bilges with his own eyes.

I can only answer the question based on the facts supplied.
 
Billba said:
This guy took a novel approach and claims to have fixed the problem. He is still posting one year later and as far as I know hasn't retracted his 'fixed it' label.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uxy2FLotjg
Cheers Bill
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Nothing new with his fix. Back in the day, it was common to route the crank case breather into the air intake. I remember old Ford engines having a crank case breather from the side of the engine straight out under the car. When they got a bit worn (usually after about 5 miles, :)) there was a stream of smoke puffing underneath the car.
 
PaulRainbow said:
Nothing new with his fix. Back in the day, it was common to route the crank case breather into the air intake. I remember old Ford engines having a crank case breather from the side of the engine straight out under the car. When they got a bit worn (usually after about 5 miles, :)) there was a stream of smoke puffing underneath the car.
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It's still pretty common to route breathers into air intakes.
The worry with a diesel is that if it throws enough oil in there, it will run by burning it, possibly running away at high rpm.

Breathers on old motorbikes would be worth a lounge thread. When they spit oil out, it's a chain lube system.
 
third engines said:
A leak test demands a supply of compressed air and other devices valves etc. You only need a simple compression test. Injectrs out and a fitting to replace the injectors with an adaptor to fit a pressure gauge, spin engine and note readings. Made one to fit our test set with an old injector.
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Admitting naivety, is it not possible to use the glow plug holes (if they exist)?
 
vyv_cox said:
The very simplest compression test is to bar the engine over using a socket spanner on the bolt on the end of the crankshaft. If the compression is good it will take considerable effort to turn it over top dead centre. This is somewhat subjective but will give you a first indication. The usual test to be carried out next is to turn the engine over on the starter and squirt oil into the intake. This coats the bores and temporarily seals leakage past the rings. If the effort required to bar the engine over now increases you know there is a problem.
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However! I did that with son's KTA19. It started! Use a ratchet spanner - you might survive!
 
PaulRainbow said:
Valve stem seals can cause smoke, as the oil in the heads gets past the seals into the combustion chamber and is burned. They wouldn't cause excess crank case pressure ot oil in the bilges though.
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That usually causes clouds of grey/white smoke at startup, as the oil sits in the cylinders until it gets burnt off.
 
third engines said:
But you miss the point. He has been told this by his "engineer"

By the way, said "engineer" claims to have fitted over 200 new "ALPHA" engines a couple of years ago and can command 45% discount from "ALPHA"

Led and garden path come to mind.

A head job is relatively easy and comes with good revenue with little effort.
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This is confusing - I don't think i mentioned the name of the "engineer" (I admit I haven't checked his qualifications) - are you guessing from my location? Is it ethical to post the name of a self-employed marine engineer (as opposed to a significant company) and invite an internet vote on whether he/she is any good - I thought not but I'm open to alternative views.

I did ask around and haven't heard anything adverse and I know he has fitted a Beta engine - also I would have thought it may be more lucrative for him to do a major overhaul rather than fit a new engine transplant job so the drift of his advice is roughly "you could do this and then see whether further work required but a more extensive rebuild what with the cost of replacement pistons could be very high and I would think about whether a new engine is a better idea" doesn't seem unreasonable.
 
vyv_cox said:
The very simplest compression test is to bar the engine over using a socket spanner on the bolt on the end of the crankshaft. If the compression is good it will take considerable effort to turn it over top dead centre. This is somewhat subjective but will give you a first indication. The usual test to be carried out next is to turn the engine over on the starter and squirt oil into the intake. This coats the bores and temporarily seals leakage past the rings. If the effort required to bar the engine over now increases you know there is a problem.
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That sounds relatively easy - I think I have the original (green painted) hand starter. Just to be clear:

1. Turn over on starting handle without using decompression lever and gauge effort required.
2. Turn the engine over on the starter while its cold and and minimum throttle so that it doesn't actually start, whilst spraying oil into hole where air cleaner goes.
3. Repeat (1) also not using decompression lever (which would defeat object?) and see if harder?

Is it not possible it just won't turn over without decompressing - don't know never tried.

BTW downloaded workshop manual and can't find a component called a crankcase breather anywhere - perhaps as suggested it's a hole in the valve cover gasket.
 
If you can't turn it over without using the de-compression lever, there will be nothing wrong with the compression.
 
eddystone said:
That sounds relatively easy - I think I have the original (green painted) hand starter. Just to be clear:

1. Turn over on starting handle without using decompression lever and gauge effort required.
2. Turn the engine over on the starter while its cold and and minimum throttle so that it doesn't actually start, whilst spraying oil into hole where air cleaner goes.
3. Repeat (1) also not using decompression lever (which would defeat object?) and see if harder?

Is it not possible it just won't turn over without decompressing - don't know never tried.

BTW downloaded workshop manual and can't find a component called a crankcase breather anywhere - perhaps as suggested it's a hole in the valve cover gasket.
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Yes, but for your 2 you can open the decompression. Then it won't start and turns over more quickly.
 
vyv_cox said:
Yes, but for your 2 you can open the decompression. Then it won't start and turns over more quickly.
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I don't know if mine is typical, but it works and seems to produce the expected power: However, using a socket on the centre of the crankshaft and a ratchet bar about 40cm long (maybe less), it isn't hard to turn the engine against the compression. Not easy, but doesn't require muscles like Superman! I don't think there's any loss of compression (you can hold it against the compression and the force required doesn't diminish, and all three cylinders feel about the same), and I don't have any sign of leaks or pressure in the crankcase. I don't think these engines have an enormous compression ratio.
 
I'm really grateful for all the advice and suggestions but there are different and conflicting views here which are a bit confusing; the problem is in the absence of the skills, experience and tools to do it myself, it costs significant money to find an answer through testing, which is dead money if a new engine is needed.

1. Since the engine starts OK the compression is probably OK (bit of history it was compression tested 4 years ago and both cylinders at lower end of permissible range and about equal - since then done +/- 150 hours and v.rarely run above 2200rpm).
2. V.recently started blowing white smoke under load at higher revs - diminishes considerably at lower revs - no white smoke even at max revs in neutral. (BTW this seemed to follow a visit to Newton Ferrers when I uncharacteristically abused the engine - once to get off the Spit and second in an unsuccessful to spring the bow out against a strong ebb)
3. There is a film of oil in the bilge which has to be coming from somewhere; I may have over-topped up the oil but since the engineer query I've sucked some out. Recently I feel it's starting to use a bit of oil. use Halford 15-40 mineral oil/change oil and filter every 50 hours.
4. "Engineer/mechanic/whatever reports excessive crankcase pressure from evidence of hand over filler cap and spitting oil form dipstick (the latter I can confirm); c25% of respondents to this thread think all engines spit oil if dipstick removed.
5. I don't think there is a cooling problem - seems like a healthy flow of water from the exhaust.

So my conclusion is:

a. The injectors need serving but that's normal for that age of engine and probably a good idea anyway
b. It's not obviously in need of a head job although (although if the prognosis on the engine was otherwise ok it may be worth at some stage taking the head off to do what's needed to maintain compression.
c. If there is excessive crankcase pressure, unless the breather (wherever it is on the 2002) is blocked or there is far too much oil in the sump (how much is too much?), it can only be through gas blowing past the piston rings, so at the very least the rings need replacing. For me this level of overhaul and rebuild is uneconomic since there may well be other issues with a 30 year old engine and my investment criteria is a guaranteed 5-10 year serviceable life.
 
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