G
Guest
Guest
I desperatly require advice re: the correct method of setting up the rigging on a Vivacity 21. Perhaps tension per stay or ammount of slack. Please assist if possiblr,tks. Martin.
sterilecuckoo58
New member
I am in the process of retensioning a Vivacity 24 rigging using a tensioning gauge. Will report on process.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
The other chap has had twelve and a half years to get his right.
Seajet
...
LustyD of these forums has a well set up Vivacity 20 so try to track him down; I wouldn't expect anything unusual about it though.
The main thing is to have the shrouds set up so the leeward one is just slightly slack when beating into a strong wind, and remember the forestay takes the major loads; backstays are not usually very tight.
The main thing is to have the shrouds set up so the leeward one is just slightly slack when beating into a strong wind, and remember the forestay takes the major loads; backstays are not usually very tight.
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sterilecuckoo58
New member
Yes of course, but the bloke who bought Martin's sea slamming vessel may come looking and chime in next spring.
Anyway, I am looking for info on the sheaves as I need to replace the halyards (one wire halyard has sprung a broken thread) and the concept of switching to all rope is appealing. Changing the sheaves, and halyards as well as lighting upgrades in one trip up the mast rather than two is appealing.
Do not ask why this was not done before re stepping the mast. It's not a pretty answer.
Anyway, I am looking for info on the sheaves as I need to replace the halyards (one wire halyard has sprung a broken thread) and the concept of switching to all rope is appealing. Changing the sheaves, and halyards as well as lighting upgrades in one trip up the mast rather than two is appealing.
Do not ask why this was not done before re stepping the mast. It's not a pretty answer.
A1Sailor
...
How do you set up a forestay and a backstay with different tensions?
Seajet
...
The shrouds will take a lot of the tension from aft, either via swept spreaders or I think in this case aft lowers.
lustyd
Well-known member
Lol well set up with the exception of slightly baggy rigging which has been on "the list" for 2 years
Nothing special, just 4mm wire and rigging screws. The main problem is that with thin rigging this old it's hard to work out correct new lengths for things because as you tighten the shrouds the roof can sag sufficiently for the stays to become looser so if all are too long you pretty much have to guess for new lengths and even where the mast was supposed to be. This has been one of my main reasons for ignoring it (she sails well enough with it slightly loose) and 3 local riggers have ignored my offer of custom.sterilecuckoo58
New member
Sloop Rig Tuning Tensioning
I am similarly puzzled. Using a Loos tension gauge I have a relative tension of 1.25 on the forestay and 0.2 on each backstay. My side stays and inner shrouds are about 0.50-0.75.
Observed bending of the forestay in a healthy breeze (15-20kn) I think means insufficient tension in the forestay, but what bedevils me is what keeps the masthead from bending forward? Like A1Sailor, I'd expect the forestay tension to be balanced by the back stays, notionally half the forestay value in each. If that is not happening, where is the forestay tensile load being balanced? In the rebuilt foot? Yikes. In the upper and aft lower aft shrouds connected to the same chainplate as the upper shrouds? How?
Clearly I am currently barking up the wrong spar.
I am similarly puzzled. Using a Loos tension gauge I have a relative tension of 1.25 on the forestay and 0.2 on each backstay. My side stays and inner shrouds are about 0.50-0.75.
Observed bending of the forestay in a healthy breeze (15-20kn) I think means insufficient tension in the forestay, but what bedevils me is what keeps the masthead from bending forward? Like A1Sailor, I'd expect the forestay tension to be balanced by the back stays, notionally half the forestay value in each. If that is not happening, where is the forestay tensile load being balanced? In the rebuilt foot? Yikes. In the upper and aft lower aft shrouds connected to the same chainplate as the upper shrouds? How?
Clearly I am currently barking up the wrong spar.
sterilecuckoo58
New member
Rigging tuning Vivacity 24
Thanks Seajet... I am still puzzled but will proceed cautiously with further adjustments. I will look for slack in the side shrouds, and see if I can find a sequence for rigging tuning.
Thanks Seajet... I am still puzzled but will proceed cautiously with further adjustments. I will look for slack in the side shrouds, and see if I can find a sequence for rigging tuning.
mrming
Well-known member
Both the Selden and Z Spars tuning guides are good:
http://www.riggingandsails.com/pdf/selden-tuning.pdf (page 18)
http://www.zsparsuk.com/mhsstune.htm
http://www.riggingandsails.com/pdf/selden-tuning.pdf (page 18)
http://www.zsparsuk.com/mhsstune.htm
Seajet
...
If the spreaders are straight not swept as I think is the case with the Vivacity the lowers are usually on different chainplates to the cap shrouds.
My boat has swept spreaders so the cap shrouds go aft of the mast, the only lowers go forward.
One can use backstay adjusters to tension the mast back and tighten the forestay to stop the headsail luff sagging to leeward, but on our size boats even in half a gale it's rare to find the backstay taking much tension compared to the other stays.
My boat has swept spreaders so the cap shrouds go aft of the mast, the only lowers go forward.
One can use backstay adjusters to tension the mast back and tighten the forestay to stop the headsail luff sagging to leeward, but on our size boats even in half a gale it's rare to find the backstay taking much tension compared to the other stays.
neilf39
Active member
The V21 has a masthead rig. Set it up all round with enough tension to hold the mast straight. As the Vivacity has two lowers on each side, one in front and one behind the mast, the mast will stay in place quite happily with fore and backstays just set to take up the slack to start with. For the uppers I used a Loos guage to get to 12% breaking strain and the lowers each to about 10%. Do the lowers first. Sight up the mast to keep all in line as you tighten it up. As you do the uppers the lowers may lose a bit of tension so check and adjust. As far as I know there should be no rake or pre-bend configured. I could never work out the forestay tension as it was all hidden by the roller reefing so tightened it and the backstays so the mast stayed straight and until I felt that the forestay was reasonably taut. I think there may have been about 6% or 7% on the Loos gauge but can't remember for sure.
Once basically set up, go out for a sail in about 15 knots of wind so you get a 20 to 25 degree heel on. If the leeward shrouds go noticeably slack then everything is too loose. If the looseness varies on port or starboard tack then the mast is probably not vertical athwartships. Tighten up all round until the leeward shrouds only just about start to go slack in the scenario above. If the luff of the jib has excessive curve in it tighten up the fore and backstays to reduce it to a reasonable amount keeping the mast straight. (if you have roller reefing there is always a bit of curve just from the ali tube). You may have to go round everything a couple of times or so as adjusting one thing can change the tension in the others. This is when you also find out how much of a problem you have with mast compression. If you find adjusting does not reduce the slackness on the leeward side then the deck is probably compressing as you apply more tension. Its a known issue on the V21. There was no compression post originally and the deck relies on a raised moulding, a slight camber, and a large plank of wood glassed in across the deck. If there are fittings at the mast foot then water often gets in and softens the wood over the 30 or 40 years she has been around. Solutions are to fit a compression post, changing the bulkhead arrangement; or dig out the old plank and glass in another beefier one (major surgery).
You can live with a bit of compression. I had a small amount so the shrouds on the leward side would go slightly slack out in a blow.
If you want to put on a bit more forestay tension on then run a 2:1 line between the backstays about 6 feet up with a jammer. This can act as a tensioner, pulling the backstays together increases the backstay tension.
Once basically set up, go out for a sail in about 15 knots of wind so you get a 20 to 25 degree heel on. If the leeward shrouds go noticeably slack then everything is too loose. If the looseness varies on port or starboard tack then the mast is probably not vertical athwartships. Tighten up all round until the leeward shrouds only just about start to go slack in the scenario above. If the luff of the jib has excessive curve in it tighten up the fore and backstays to reduce it to a reasonable amount keeping the mast straight. (if you have roller reefing there is always a bit of curve just from the ali tube). You may have to go round everything a couple of times or so as adjusting one thing can change the tension in the others. This is when you also find out how much of a problem you have with mast compression. If you find adjusting does not reduce the slackness on the leeward side then the deck is probably compressing as you apply more tension. Its a known issue on the V21. There was no compression post originally and the deck relies on a raised moulding, a slight camber, and a large plank of wood glassed in across the deck. If there are fittings at the mast foot then water often gets in and softens the wood over the 30 or 40 years she has been around. Solutions are to fit a compression post, changing the bulkhead arrangement; or dig out the old plank and glass in another beefier one (major surgery).
You can live with a bit of compression. I had a small amount so the shrouds on the leward side would go slightly slack out in a blow.
If you want to put on a bit more forestay tension on then run a 2:1 line between the backstays about 6 feet up with a jammer. This can act as a tensioner, pulling the backstays together increases the backstay tension.
sterilecuckoo58
New member
I have come in to cool off from the 33 degrees C out there.
Thanks mrming for the references, I have briefly reviewed and can see tuning the rig is far more fun than originally thought;
Thanks Seajet for the thoughtful replies;
Thanks neilf39 for the extended discussion of tuning, soggy wood and the construction of the roof. The tuning part was great but the roof construction part is not making me feel too good. My Vivacity 24 had 12 screw holes for the decorative slats flanking the mast step. The holes are epoxy filled, and the new slats are bedded with 3M4000 - no screws - so no leaks... I hope.
I have removed the starboard marine head (2010) and have been contemplating the reuse of the space (long contemplation). As part of my haul out this season I replaced the iron ballast with lead (starboard only), and leveled the deck at the mast step, installed new wood mounting plate and hopefully got the mast in the original lateral position. I know she is higher as I had to open up all my shrouds. I did encounter wet wood (but not punky) when I drilled for new screw mounting holes and hope to dry it out over time (maybe open the cabin ceiling, seal the cabin and dehumidify all winter). I have run the lightening ground straight through (2 x #8 stranded) the cabin on the forward side of the starboard bulkhead (also bonded the cable to the mast foot plate rather than it just sitting in a bunch between the wet wood and the foot plate). Incorporating a compression post their seems quite fitting.
Thanks mrming for the references, I have briefly reviewed and can see tuning the rig is far more fun than originally thought;
Thanks Seajet for the thoughtful replies;
Thanks neilf39 for the extended discussion of tuning, soggy wood and the construction of the roof. The tuning part was great but the roof construction part is not making me feel too good. My Vivacity 24 had 12 screw holes for the decorative slats flanking the mast step. The holes are epoxy filled, and the new slats are bedded with 3M4000 - no screws - so no leaks... I hope.
I have removed the starboard marine head (2010) and have been contemplating the reuse of the space (long contemplation). As part of my haul out this season I replaced the iron ballast with lead (starboard only), and leveled the deck at the mast step, installed new wood mounting plate and hopefully got the mast in the original lateral position. I know she is higher as I had to open up all my shrouds. I did encounter wet wood (but not punky) when I drilled for new screw mounting holes and hope to dry it out over time (maybe open the cabin ceiling, seal the cabin and dehumidify all winter). I have run the lightening ground straight through (2 x #8 stranded) the cabin on the forward side of the starboard bulkhead (also bonded the cable to the mast foot plate rather than it just sitting in a bunch between the wet wood and the foot plate). Incorporating a compression post their seems quite fitting.