Vital to boating matters - Clarity, not Trust

  • Thread starter Thread starter tcm
  • Start date Start date

tcm

...
Joined
11 Jan 2002
Messages
23,958
Location
Caribbean at the moment
Visit site
I thought this (just about) deserved its own thread. Anyway we hardly we have any new threads these days with dateslip everything interesting is at the top so people feel a new post has to be arg important when it could be just aything and er...

Chris Robb's post prompted this. Bu tit could apply to any boating issue, and (since boats aren't always in the back garden) boating matters often seem to need raher a healthy dose of trust -almost all from the buyer -you. How do you know the engineer did a full service on your car or boat? How do you know this or that work will be done? How do you know?

"Well, hah, I suppose it's all a matter of trust, sir" is what you often get. You certainly get this in the UK if you buy a house off-plan - the vaguest of specs is provided. Actually the same with a hundred grand new boat too and many just say there'll be a cooker or various things on board - whereas if youwent to Comet you would be pretty sure about this model against that one. With boats though, you just have to trust them.

But in fact of course - you don't need to trust them. You can say "Yeah well never mind aboutthe trust thing mateypoops and especially since my deposit cheque or car or boat is worth more than your entire sales shed and especially also since we met on the flippin pontoon yesterday and today actually no i don't trust you an inch." Hah ! No - of course you *can't* say that, cos you're far too nice and the sales bod knows it .

Bur really, Chris Robb wants to see the documents and really, he wants to see those docs before handing over any money. At some point (esp if they haven't gotthe docs...) the sales bods will use the Trust Weapon and dare youto sa the "i don't trust you" speech. They say "What's wrong - Don't you trust us? We've done this dozens of times etc etc " Now what?

What you actually say is "It's not a question of trust - IT'S A QUESTION OF CLARITY". This removes any personal rubbish about the transaction at a stroke. You may have to say this several times. And of course - it's the lack of clarity (i.e here is the boat and look here are the docs in Chris Robb's case) which means they are trying to substitute a trust-dare instead. The same applies to lots of situations and wherever there is a lack of clarity, one side will try and try use trust (from the other side) instead, when it won't do quite as well. Or perhaps not at all.

hope this helps
 
Point well put. Having just re read the contract, it requires the Vendors to deliver to the brokers all documents specified. Having done that completion takes place. It does not seem that I have the right to see the documents - which seems daft. Should have read this part properly before signing. So I am entirely in their hands - and yes the trust bit has already come up - and yes - we do it this way always. - (i am therefore a complete dick). So in the interests of Clarity it is....

Thanks for that

Chris
 
I like that clarity thing. I would make it clear to the broker that the documents are a valuable part of the boat. The VAT status thing could work out as expensive as a new rig if it is wrong and you have to pay VAT.

And they let you look at, survey and be clear about the rig before you buy.

Ask them to clarify exactly who's ass you will have to sue if the paperwork is anything less than 100%.

That might clarify their thinking.
 
Re: Vital to boating matters - Clarity, not Trust

Good approach, that clarity thing. I tend to use "in the interests of full disclosure", but the clarity thing has a softer edge.
 
Chris

I posted the following on the other thread. If you have the ABYA contract you are very well protected.
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chris

Before I add anything to this thread I must stress I do not know what contract you have or the background to your situation, so am in no way offering legal advice. You or anyone reading this thread should seek appropriate advice.

However If you have the standard ABYA contract you have gone way beyond trust. You have a LEGALLY BINDING contract that now makes supply of these documents a CONDITION of the sale/contract.

As it states at the beginning:

This document is intended to create a legally binding contract. If you are unsure of any of the conditions you are advised to take appropriate legal advice.

You also have the following clause:

14 Jurisdiction
(a) This Agreement shall be construed according to and governed by the law of England (or of Scotland if the Vendor's address shall be in that Country) and the parties hereby submit to the jurisdiction of the Courts of the same countries.

And crucially you have clause 10 (b)

(b) If the Vendor shall default in the execution of his part of this Contract the Purchaser shall without prejudice to any other right he may have hereunder be entitled to the return of his part payment. Unless such default by the Vendor shall have arisen from events over which the Vendor has no control the Vendor shall pay interest upon the amount of the part payment for the period during which he has held it at the rate of 4% per annum above Finance House Base Rate, together with compensation for any loss which the Purchaser may have sustained as a result of the Vendor's default.

and clause 11

11 Arbitration
All disputes that cannot be resolved between the parties arising out of or in connection with this Agreement, shall be referred by either party for conciliation to the President or Chairman of such Federation or Association to which the Broker mentioned herein belongs and in the event of failure of such conciliation to Arbitration by a single arbitrator to be appointed in default of agreement by the President of the BMF or failing him the Chairman for the time being of the Royal Yachting Association and the provisions of the Arbitration Act 1996 or any amending legislation shall apply to any reference under this clause. Should any dispute be referred to a third party the Broker shall, when a part payment is held as Stakeholder, be empowered to pay same into a designated account until the determination of the dispute. All decisions concerning whether or not the dispute is to be resolved by Arbitration must be made in writing.


So you have a legally binding contract covered by English law that compels the supply of the documents, that the vessel is free of encumbrances, and provision for compensation to you in the event of a default.

The sale can only complete with the documents and you can be compensated for any losses if they are not provided.

Imagine if it really were being done on trust through a private sell or through an unregulated broker with no such contract.

Relax and look forward to your new boat.
 
Top