Visiting France - an update

[Bobc]

I thought for a moment that autocorrect had done something odd with Gravelines…


I assume that with the new system if one enters France and then sails up the coast to Belgium or Holland then it’s essential to check out of France and check in via whatever method is appropriate in those countries.

I would think you check out of France using the same method as when you checked in, and then have to chexk into the next country using their rules.

 

[ashtead]

If that is correct it’s going to be interesting comparison with driving into little Belgium in absence of border posts in the Schengen area.

 

[Bobc]

You need to understand that this new system has only been put in place by about 35 ports in northern France, because the ports were complaining that they were losing revenue due to the lack of British yachts visiting. It is not and EU-wide thing, and not even available in all of France. It is not designed to take account of all eventualities, it is there for when you are sailing to France for a holiday and then sailing back.

 

[ashtead]

So you arrive in France by yacht , collect a stamp and then drive to Belgium - spend a few days there and drive back to your yacht . I suspect people drive through eu countries all the time in this fashion.

 

[lustyd]

Border Control is more than just stamping a passport.

From what I can tell, having crossed a few, it’s almost all theatre. The “border” is a construct installed at mass transit points which doesn’t exist elsewhere. If yachtsmen have to go traipsing off to find someone to stamp a little book then “border control” is obviously not working.

 

[Poecheng]

Our experience: arrived Cherbourg Saturday (13 July) and left this morning.

1. The email address on the form has been superseded and the new, correct address is dipn50-paf-cic@interieur.gouv.fr [I sent it to the email on the form and got a bounce back saying send to this new email address]
2. We arrived in the evening, rang the PAF who said to come to them with our passports. The PAF is on the other side of the harbour and its What Three Words address (its entrance door) is /// charge.fans.cherub. It is about 15 mins walk from where we were in the marina but feels longer the first time. Most visitors would be a little closer but the Dhream Cup was in Cherbourg and we were over near the breakwater.
3. PAF staff very pleasant and easy to deal with. Stamped us out c.9pm night before we actually left - I put on the form we were leaving 5am THey are a 24hrs office.
4. There is no 6pm marina presence for the PAF at the moment as a lot of staff have been pulled to Paris for the Olympics.

 

[matt1]

Our experience: arrived Cherbourg Saturday (13 July) and left this morning.

1. The email address on the form has been superseded and the new, correct address is dipn50-paf-cic@interieur.gouv.fr [I sent it to the email on the form and got a bounce back saying send to this new email address]
2. We arrived in the evening, rang the PAF who said to come to them with our passports. The PAF is on the other side of the harbour and its What Three Words address (its entrance door) is /// charge.fans.cherub. It is about 15 mins walk from where we were in the marina but feels longer the first time. Most visitors would be a little closer but the Dhream Cup was in Cherbourg and we were over near the breakwater.
3. PAF staff very pleasant and easy to deal with. Stamped us out c.9pm night before we actually left - I put on the form we were leaving 5am THey are a 24hrs office.
4. There is no 6pm marina presence for the PAF at the moment as a lot of staff have been pulled to Paris for the Olympics.

That mirrors my experience in cherbourg (19/20 July).

PAF did not come to the marina Friday night but apparently were due to visit Saturday 10:30 am

I walked to the PAF office and got my passport stamped as per the marina instructions. Annoyingly after explaining I was leaving at 5am the following day they would not simultaneously stamp me out and made me walk back to the office to be stamped the following morning (they are open 24/7)

This in contrast to my visits last year when on at least two occasions they were willing to stamp me out for the following day so that I could make an early departure

 

[stranded]

You need to understand that this new system has only been put in place by about 35 ports in northern France

Unless you are talking about a different ‘new system’ this is not quite true. The new system I am aware of operates at designated ports along all French coastlines, including Corsica, and in at least two (out of a sample of 2) non-designated ports in Biscay.

Now we get to my inference, which either differs from yours, or I have misunderstood - a sadly increasingly common occurrence: while it is important for future travel that you have a record of exit if you have a record of entry, I have seen nothing to suggest that you cannot be ‘old system’ passport stamped in, then ‘new system’ preavis form stamped out, or vice versa. The problem of course arises if, as you found, a port refuses to provide a stamped preavis for you to keep as evidence. But, at least for the non-PoEs, they should.

It doesn’t always work smoothly - Camaret screwed up our ‘new system’ entry and we ended up getting our passports physically stamped in Lorient two weeks after arrival, so are effectively ‘old system’ checked in. But there is no suggestion we can’t use the new system to check out from any of the designated ports so long as we obtain a stamped record we can keep with our passports.

 

[lustyd]

seen nothing to suggest that you cannot be ‘old system’ passport stamped in, then ‘new system’ preavis form stamped out, or vice versa.

The page setting out the new system specifically covered this. You must use one or the other not both.

 

[stranded]

The page setting out the new system specifically covered this. You must use one or the other not both.

Must have missed that - can you point me to where I can find said page please.

 

[Dellquay13]

Unless you are talking about a different ‘new system’ this is not quite true. The new system I am aware of operates at designated ports along all French coastlines, including Corsica, and in at least two (out of a sample of 2) non-designated ports in Biscay.

Now we get to my inference, which either differs from yours, or I have misunderstood - a sadly increasingly common occurrence: while it is important for future travel that you have a record of exit if you have a record of entry, I have seen nothing to suggest that you cannot be ‘old system’ passport stamped in, then ‘new system’ preavis form stamped out, or vice versa. The problem of course arises if, as you found, a port refuses to provide a stamped preavis for you to keep as evidence. But, at least for the non-PoEs, they should.

It doesn’t always work smoothly - Camaret screwed up our ‘new system’ entry and we ended up getting our passports physically stamped in Lorient two weeks after arrival, so are effectively ‘old system’ checked in. But there is no suggestion we can’t use the new system to check out from any of the designated ports so long as we obtain a stamped record we can keep with our passports.

I thought (via news from the RYA) there was a ‘new’ local system introduced for N Brittany ports and marinas for boats making short visits to the local area only, not valid for wider Schengen movement.

 

[ashtead]

There is at St cast if that’s what you had in mind DQ13 ?

 

[stranded]

I thought (via news from the RYA) there was a ‘new’ local system introduced for N Brittany ports and marinas for boats making short visits to the local area only, not valid for wider Schengen movement.

There was, and I think that is how I confused myself. But there is a ‘new’ new system introduced on 1 June this year which covers a much bigger number of ports including Atlantic and Med coasts and operates differently in some ways.

 

[Boathook]

I thought (via news from the RYA) there was a ‘new’ local system introduced for N Brittany ports and marinas for boats making short visits to the local area only, not valid for wider Schengen movement.

There is a local system for the ports "near" the CI's as the lcoal ports complained about loss of trade, etc. Its just a simple form to send to the local harbour and customs. I wonder how the local customs cope as in Cateret a lot of Jersey ribs turned up carrying passengers, persumably for lunch, and then departed afterwards.
I get the impression that the only "paperwork" the marinas are interested in is money for your stay.

 

[lustyd]

Must have missed that - can you point me to where I can find said page please.

Marinas – digimap.gg
this includes the info, I've lost track of the official page

 

[st599]

Marinas – digimap.gg
this includes the info, I've lost track of the official page

That matches the RYA advice I've had - with the addition that if you intend to travel beyond France in to Schengen, you have to use a PPF port.

Also if you're doing a crew change, then you need to enter via PPF so the crew can stamp out on the ferry or flight.

 

[wonkywinch]

I entered via non PAF form kindly stamped by St Brieuc for entry into Treguier but when I visited the duane at St Malo car ferry yesterday to ask the question about exit, they said it was not permitted to be in France without a passport stamp. I spoke to almost all the 6 police at the office and they insisted on stamping my passport.

This has caused a change of plan from a non PAF exit (was Dielette) to go straight to Alderney and get an exit stamp from St Malo. I will also see if I can get my Treguier entry form stamped with a St Malo exit also.

Most of the police in St Malo didn't seem to know what the non PAF form was.

 

[stranded]

Marinas – digimap.gg
this includes the info, I've lost track of the official page

Yes - and if you look at eg the CA, digimap, noonsite, they all seem to be drawing on each other, with no link to an authoritative source - CA explicitly says they don’t have one. So while I now know what they say, I am not 100% convinced they themselves are not making inferences and possibly conflating the earlier Channel ports protocol with the latest one. Anyway, my plan is to test this by trying to leave from L’Aber Wrach under the new protocol (having been stamped in at Lorient PPF), and getting a taxi into Brest if I am wrong. So we shall see.

 

[lustyd]

Most of the police in St Malo didn't seem to know what the non PAF form was.

I don't think they necessarily need to, you're not supposed to speak to them if using the alternative system.

That said, it would be nice if they were at least aware, and if the various information was easily available from an official source

 

[lustyd]

Anyway, my plan is to test this by trying to leave from L’Aber Wrach under the new protocol (having been stamped in at Lorient PPF)

If you're stamped in at a PPF then you must be stamped out otherwise you won't have matching passport stamps - that much seems obvious.

Neither Lorient nor L'Aber Wrac'h seem to be PPF so not sure why you have a stamp at all?