Visiting boats, Covid and risk

[bdh198]

It’s been interesting during lockdown to see different people’s attitude to the regulations Vs risk of spreading the virus in deciding whether to visit their boats or not.

An analogy might be with one’s attitude to Rule 10 of the COLREGS and crossing Traffic Separation Schemes. If you were desperate to get to a destination by a particular time (maybe because of tide, to catch a flight, or to enter an unfamiliar port in daylight), but that desperation could not be said to be an emergency, and the only way of getting there in time would be by a blatant breach of the TSS crossing regulations by crossing on a heading that is not as nearly as practicable at right angles to the general direction of traffic flow, would you do it? And for the purpose of this thought experiment, let’s assume that the risk (of getting caught and of encountering another vessel) was negligible e.g. daylight, good visibility, flat seas, favourable wind and tide and no other vessels in sight - eye ball, AIS or radar. The TSS lane is only a couple of miles wide and at the speed you’re going you’ll be across in no time at all. Put simply, the risk in your mind is judged to be comparable to the risk of spreading Covid by visiting your boat during lockdown, would those who do visit their boats adopt the same attitude to the TSS in that situation?

Admittedly the consequences of getting caught are higher for a TSS infringement. It’s still only a fine, but will be significantly higher than the £200 for not having a reasonable excuse to visit your boat. But it is the attitude to a compatible risk in a familiar maritime environment that is of interest for this purpose. And, of course, you’re confident you’re not going to get caught.

 

[RupertW]

It’s been interesting during lockdown to see different people’s attitude to the regulations Vs risk of spreading the virus in deciding whether to visit their boats or not.

An analogy might be with one’s attitude to Rule 10 of the COLREGS and crossing Traffic Separation Schemes. If you were desperate to get to a destination by a particular time (maybe because of tide, to catch a flight, or to enter an unfamiliar port in daylight), but that desperation could not be said to be an emergency, and the only way of getting there in time would be by a blatant breach of the TSS crossing regulations by crossing at an angle that is not, as far as practicable, at right angles to the lane, would you do it? And for the purpose of this thought experiment, let’s assume that the risk (of getting caught and of encountering another vessel) was negligible e.g. daylight, good visibility, flat seas, favourable wind and tide and no other vessels in sight - eye ball, AIS or radar. The TSS lane is only a couple of miles wide and at the speed you’re going you’ll be across in no time at all. Put simply, the risk in your mind is judged to be comparable to the risk of spreading Covid by visiting your boat during lockdown, would those who do visit their boats adopt the same attitude to the TSS in that situation?

Admittedly the consequences of getting caught are higher for a TSS infringement. It’s still only a fine, but will be significantly higher than the £200 for not having a reasonable excuse to visit your boat. But it is the attitude to a compatible risk in a familiar maritime environment that is of interest for this purpose. And, of course, you’re confident you’re not going to get caught.

From all the postings the difference in those trying to find loopholes in the rules are those who only consider the risk to themselves and not the risk they pose to others, so the TSS analogy doesn’t really work as I’m often happy to TSS at an angle day or night because I carry all the risk in my little boat so pose no danger to others.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

But you can visit your boat if you urgently need to do work on it or prevent an endangerment to it or another party. That is reasonable excuse.

I doubt that crossing 3 UK nations to touch up the varnish would count as reasonable, and if it is in marina or yard it would not be reasonable to access to merely make sure it was alright as yard or marina staff could do that on your behalf.

In many ways its no different to working on houses as I am doing currently in my non-railway time or preparing for a house move as my son is.

If you do travel or do things away from home you are obliged to do it in a manner that minimises risks. Few stops, masks, sanitiser, social distancing etc

You may also be asked by the authorities of evidence for your need to trave l: appointments, invoice for supplies details of work or cause to travel. However neither my self or son were ever asked when travelling between London and Bristol or Bristol and Cornwall. Pity as we had all our evidence to hand.

Not quite the same as a TSS infringement

 

[Solent Sailor]

I think that wins prize of the week for passive-aggressive posting.

 

[Achosenman]

When the rules include the section quoted below as "reasonable", you need to ask what is the real risk of travelling in isolation and then working in isolation?

There are further reasonable excuses. For example, you may leave home to fulfil legal obligations, or to carry out activities related to buying, selling, letting or renting a residential property, for the purpose of picketing, or where it is reasonably necessary for voting in an election or referendum.

 

[bdh198]

But you can visit your boat if you urgently need to do work on it or prevent an endangerment to it or another party. That is reasonable excuse.

I doubt that crossing 3 UK nations to touch up the varnish would count as reasonable, and if it is in marina or yard it would not be reasonable to access to merely make sure it was alright as yard or marina staff could do that on your behalf.

In many ways its no different to working on houses as I am doing currently in my non-railway time or preparing for a house move as my son is.

If you do travel or do things away from home you are obliged to do it in a manner that minimises risks. Few stops, masks, sanitiser, social distancing etc

You may also be asked by the authorities of evidence for your need to trave l: appointments, invoice for supplies details of work or cause to travel. However neither my self or son were ever asked when travelling between London and Bristol or Bristol and Cornwall. Pity as we had all our evidence to hand.

Not quite the same as a TSS infringement

My comparison to a TSS isn’t about visiting your boat because you feel you have a reasonable excuse. That would be like crossing a TSS at a jaunty angle because of an emergency and would be lawful (exception to the rule). My comparison is for those who know they are breaching the regulations, but do so knowing or believing they can mitigate the risk. Would anyone infringe the TSS rules knowing or believing they can mitigate the risk because it shortens their journey, or gets them to their destination quicker?

 

[Bilgediver]

It’s been interesting during lockdown to see different people’s attitude to the regulations Vs risk of spreading the virus in deciding whether to visit their boats or not.

An analogy might be with one’s attitude to Rule 10 of the COLREGS and crossing Traffic Separation Schemes. If you were desperate to get to a destination by a particular time (maybe because of tide, to catch a flight, or to enter an unfamiliar port in daylight), but that desperation could not be said to be an emergency, and the only way of getting there in time would be by a blatant breach of the TSS crossing regulations by crossing at an angle that is not, as far as practicable, at right angles to the lane, would you do it? And for the purpose of this thought experiment, let’s assume that the risk (of getting caught and of encountering another vessel) was negligible e.g. daylight, good visibility, flat seas, favourable wind and tide and no other vessels in sight - eye ball, AIS or radar. The TSS lane is only a couple of miles wide and at the speed you’re going you’ll be across in no time at all. Put simply, the risk in your mind is judged to be comparable to the risk of spreading Covid by visiting your boat during lockdown, would those who do visit their boats adopt the same attitude to the TSS in that situation?

Admittedly the consequences of getting caught are higher for a TSS infringement. It’s still only a fine, but will be significantly higher than the £200 for not having a reasonable excuse to visit your boat. But it is the attitude to a compatible risk in a familiar maritime environment that is of interest for this purpose. And, of course, you’re confident you’re not going to get caught.

Just remember to switch your AIS off to improve your chance of not being acosted as a certain racing sailor discovered to his cost in the channel.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

My comparison to a TSS isn’t about visiting your boat because you feel you have a reasonable excuse. That would be like cross a TSS at a jaunty angle because of an emergency and would be lawful (exception to the rule). My comparison is for those who know they are breaching the regulations, but do so knowing or believing they can mitigate the risk. Would anyone infringe the TSS rules knowing or believing they can mitigate the risk because it shortens their journey, or gets them to their destination quicker?

Part of the problem is that many thinkgs are legal re Covid and indeed other things that are against government advice or in covid case against gov regulation. However I dont take kindly to covid idiots, particularly since an innocent person unfortunately brought covid into my house and we all fell ill with it. (Gym probably not sanitised correctly, when gyms open, and DIL was exercising there legally)

However I dont wish to be too sactimonious if I think folk are stretching the interpretations but not putting others at risk. Working solo in a boat yard near your home must count as about unlikely to spread covid as my once a month walk to the allotment. Going to the shops, which I must do once a month, represents a greater risk.

I would report a rave to the police, but not some lad or lass chatting to their mates and failing to be able to measure 2m or count up to six

 

[lustyd]

crossing regulations by crossing at an angle that is not, as far as practicable, at right angles to the lane

It's a good analogy, the people trying to start arguments about Covid misinterpreted the rules too.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I am fairly confused as to whether this thread was about covid outing behaviour or TSS crossing behaviour. I presumed the former, and that TSSs were only mentioning as an analogy, and they on reflection seemed hard to make for equivalence in treatment.

 

[Alicatt]

When the rules include the section quoted below as "reasonable", you need to ask what is the real risk of travelling in isolation and then working in isolation?

There are further reasonable excuses. For example, you may leave home to fulfil legal obligations, or to carry out activities related to buying, selling, letting or renting a residential property, for the purpose of picketing, or where it is reasonably necessary for voting in an election or referendum.

Under that I can return home both the UK and Belgium immigration depts. say that, however it would then cancel my residency in Belgium while I'm waiting for my new ID Card and that I cannot do as it would separate me from my wife, children and grand children Arrrgh! if it's not Covid then it's the big B.

 

[lustyd]

I would report a rave to the police, but not some lad or lass chatting to their mates and failing to be able to measure 2m or count up to six

How about someone who lives and works in London appearing on TV in a school in Stoke to tell people not to travel?

 

[bdh198]

I am fairly confused as to whether this thread was about covid outing behaviour or TSS crossing behaviour. I presumed the former, and that TSSs were only mentioning as an analogy, and they on reflection seemed hard to make for equivalence in treatment.

It’s not about trying to out people’s Covid behaviour, many have done a good enough job of that already. It was more about trying to find an analogy to the Covid regulations in maritime context to explore whether the attitude of “I don’t see there is a risk so I won’t comply with the regulations” was something specific to the Covid regulations or a more general attitude to regulations when you don’t perceive there to be a risk. I agree, on reflection, it’s probably not the neatest analogy. I could have used the example of speeding on a motorway or parking on a double yellow line, but being a sailing forum, and the breach of the Covid regulations on other threads being boat related, I had hoped it was more pertinent.

 

[TheMerryFisher]

Apparently...SOME of us will be able to return to boating as of the 8th March according to British Marine :

Coronavirus

 

[Achosenman]

Apparently...SOME of us will be able to return to boating as of the 8th March according to British Marine :

Coronavirus

I plan on doing just that...

 

[TheMerryFisher]

For those who are nervous about clicking on URL's, here is the extract from the British Marine website:

"COVID-19: Reopening of the marine industry in England - 02/03/2021
Following the Prime Minister’s announcement on Monday 22 February outlining the roadmap of when restrictions are likely to be eased across England, British Marine met with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) to clarify the guidance specific to the leisure marine industry. Representatives from the Department for Transport, the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, navigation authorities, and user groups from across the sector also took part in the meeting. Members can read and download the following file which sets out which forms of activity can resume and when.
British Marine is delighted that from 8 March watersports, including the use of privately-owned craft and self-drive day hire boats for single households, can go ahead in England (subject to local navigation and harbour authority guidance). This is provided the boats are 'open air'. Furthermore, it has been concluded that marinas can open from 8 March to allow recreational boating to take place and boat brokerage can open in line with non-essential retail from 12 April."

I have also attached the roadmap they uploaded.

 

[Stemar]

"A vessel shall, so far as practicable, avoid crossing traffic lanes but if obliged to do so shall cross on a heading as nearly as practicable at right angles to the general direction of traffic flow."

As far as the analogy is concerned, it doesn't need to be an emergency to cross the lane at something other than right angles, just impracticable. If the risk of missing a tide for a tide-bound port makes it impracticable, so be it. The main thing, as I see it, is to navigate safely and keep out of the way of the big buggers; a few degrees here or there is neither here nor there. You'll only get chased down if you're being an idiot.

As far as Covid and boat maintenance is concerned, my boat lives on a mooring, Others may, or may not keep an eye on her. That means the occasional check is essential maintenance in my book. On my last visit, I saw that the mooring chain is badly worn. That means that, if I can't get the guy who normally deals with it to do it PDQ, I'm going to go and do it myself and will be quite happy to argue my case in court should it be necessary. I'd be less sure about antifouling, especially for a boat on the hard, as it isn't needed until you go back in, and arguably, not even essential then. Fixing a failing bilge pump or leaky stern gland? Essential. Fitting that new toy or new halliards? not essential.

To my mind, the spirit of the law is what matters - what's it trying to accomplish? So I'll keep to the spirit of the law in both cases. If the letter of the law gets stretched a bit, OK, I'll take my chances with PC Shineyboots, but the risk is minute as long as you aren't an idiot about it.

 

[lustyd]

Apparently...SOME of us will be able to return to boating as of the 8th March according to British Marine :

Coronavirus

But you still won't be allowed to cross a TSS at right angles unless your heading and track happen to coincide, which is extremely rare in my experience!

 

[DJE]

"A vessel shall, so far as practicable, avoid crossing traffic lanes but if obliged to do so shall cross on a heading as nearly as practicable at right angles to the general direction of traffic flow."

You are also allowed to join the lane at a shallow angle, work you're way across to the other side, and leave it at a shallow angle. Provided of course that you're going in the right direction. Don't know how this translates into Covid compliance though.

 

[Achosenman]

You are also allowed to join the lane at a shallow angle, work you're way across to the other side, and leave it at a shallow angle. Provided of course that you're going in the right direction. Don't know how this translates into Covid compliance though.

I would think that depends on whether you are wearing a mask or not. If not, do you have a mask exemption lanyard ?