Victron Orion XS

[Tommarr]

I am too having issues with interference on CH16 when the Orion XS is delivering a relatively high current (above 20 amps). Turning the squelch higher does nothing until the point where you effectively will not receive any transmissions. It seems to impact CH16 more than any other, we regularly use CH72 and there is no interference present. As the charging current gets smaller, the interference also disappears and you certainly don't hear anything whilst the charger is in float for example.

This is our first DC-DC charger, so have nothing to compare it to, but we have installed it within the aft cabin, about 5 meters away from the VHF radio and associated cables (masthead coaxial cable runs forward to the mast from the nav station).

I am going to go back to the supplier today and see if they can contact Victron.

Although this is a major flaw, it has otherwise been brilliant, allowing limited current from our relatively small alternator (50A) and the ability to choose exactly how the batteries are charged.

I'd be very interested to hear from anyone with the same issue, or anyone who has managed to resolve the problem. There are some posts on the Victron forums where people have experienced the same.

 

[lustyd]

I'm curious, those getting VHF interference do you have lithium on one bank? Also, is it the lithium getting charged or the lead, and which does the VHF connect to?
I'm wondering whether lead as the target might smooth the power more due to the way lead charges.

 

[Tommarr]

I'm curious, those getting VHF interference do you have lithium on one bank? Also, is it the lithium getting charged or the lead, and which does the VHF connect to?
I'm wondering whether lead as the target might smooth the power more due to the way lead charges.

We only have lead batteries - no lithium. Alternator -> lead acid starter -> Orion XS DCDC -> lead house bank.

The interference can instantly be stopped by disabling the charger via the Victron app, and it comes back as soon as it is enabled again. It doesn't impact other channels like it does 16. No interference can be heard on 72 for example.

As the charge current reduces (say less than 20 amps) and the batteries approach float, or get to float, the interference disappears. When there is interference, turning the squelch doesn't help until you turn it so high that you cannot hear any transmissions.

I have a three Victron MPPTs, two of which are next to the XS, one of which is much closer to the VHF radio and I have never experienced any interference with the MPPTs. The 240V charger is also located closer to the VHF and we get no interference whilst using this charger via the 240V generator underway.

I have contacted the supplier today and will update here when I hopefully hear back from them. Best case scenario, it's an issue only present on a select few units, but we'll see!

 

[lustyd]

Good additional info, thanks

 

[bergie]

As the charge current reduces (say less than 20 amps) and the batteries approach float, or get to float, the interference disappears. When there is interference, turning the squelch doesn't help until you turn it so high that you cannot hear any ttransmissions.

These are exactly the same symptoms as with our Orion XS. Adding ferrite blocks helped it some, to the level of VHF mostly being usable when motoring. Check the Victron Community Forum link from my earlier post in this thread.

In our case it is lead starter battery, and Orion XS charging the LiFePO4 house bank.

It should be noted that Orion XS was interfering both the wired VHF set, as well as our handheld VHF, so something is turning into an antenna.

 

[Tommarr]

These are exactly the same symptoms as with our Orion XS. Adding ferrite blocks helped it some, to the level of VHF mostly being usable when motoring. Check the Victron Community Forum link from my earlier post in this thread.

In our case it is lead starter battery, and Orion XS charging the LiFePO4 house bank.

It should be noted that Orion XS was interfering both the wired VHF set, as well as our handheld VHF, so something is turning into an antenna.

Ah that's interesting, I wonder how many other people are experiencing the same as units destined for boats must only make up a fraction of the sales. Thank you, I did see the Victron Community link, so there must be at least a handful of us.

Good news that the ferrite blocks helped, but I'm hoping Victron will respond and they won't be required, but we'll see.

Otherwise, the unit is great. Being able to completely customise the charge profiles and restrict the amount of current it draws from the alternator is really useful.

I'll do my best to update the thread when I hear anything / anything changes.

 

[bergie]

Good news that the ferrite blocks helped, but I'm hoping Victron will respond and they won't be required, but we'll see.

I contacted the German Victron distributor once we ran into this problem in early April, and back then the response was:
Victron simply replied that they had received their approval regarding EMC compatibility.

 

[Ian_Rob]

I have been liaising with Victron regarding the interference issues that can be caused by a Victron Orion and they advise that the problem results from using the non-isolated rather than isolated Orion’s.

The Orion XS is only available as at the moment in a non-isolated version. I would be interested to know whether those who have been experiencing VHF & Tachometer issues with the earlier Orion’s, have the isolated or non-isolated versions?

 

[lustyd]

I just don’t believe that at all. There’s no reason it would even be true.
I had and have non isolated.

The issue seems obvious, they’re using waveforms to change voltage which causes pulsing in a wire. That’s how radios work and that’s how tachometers work (some of them). If you feed back pulses to the tacho it’ll interfere and if you pulse a wire it transmits on a frequency dependent on the pulse and the wire length. Isolation almost certainly wouldn’t change any of that and that’s not the purpose of isolation.

 

[Ian_Rob]

Not saying you aren’t right but:

Hi Ian

On non-isolated DC/DC units, there’s always a possibility of interference, unfortunately. The solution is to use an isolated unit such as;

Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC Charger Isolated - Victron Energy

They cost a little more but when there’s VHF, etc – this is the correct solution.

Best regards

Met vriendelijke groet

Phillip Gordon
Sales Manager (UK & Ireland)

 

[bergie]

I have been liaising with Victron regarding the interference issues that can be caused by a Victron Orion and they advise that the problem results from using the non-isolated rather than isolated Orion’s.

The Orion XS is only available as at the moment in a non-isolated version. I would be interested to know whether those who have been experiencing VHF & Tachometer issues with the earlier Orion’s, have the isolated or non-isolated versions?

We had an isolated 30A Orion-Tr before, and no interference with that. Replaced it with the Orion XS, and get interference. Same wiring and everything (except one less negative wire, obviously)

 

[lustyd]

We had an isolated 30A Orion-Tr before, and no interference with that. Replaced it with the Orion XS, and get interference. Same wiring and everything (except one less negative wire, obviously)

But they’re entirely different devices so not comparable. I didn’t get VHF interference and don’t now. I did get tacho interference and don’t now. Neither are isolated and unless someone can suggest why that would make the slightest difference I’m going to stick with them making it up rather than investigating. I very much doubt there’s even a fix, as I said an oscillation on a wire is a radio. Might be possible to retune that radio with a different wire length…

 

[Ian_Rob]

So one just takes the chance that a Victron Orion/Victron Orion XS may or may not cause problems? I would prefer the XS for it’s size and cooler running but I don’t want to buy one only to find that it causes other issues. It seems ludicrous that there isn’t a definitive answer on this.

 

[lustyd]

Keep in mind that they weren’t designed as marine systems so there’s no reason they need to avoid small amounts of interference.
The XS is completely redesigned and massively more efficient but this wouldn’t be possible without using buck/boost circuits, and these are going to have side effects.
It would be nice if someone took the issue seriously and put some thought into mitigation techniques or even properly investigating the problem.
One question I have is whether the VHF sets with interference are properly grounded and whether that makes a difference. I suspect a lot are not, or the ground just connects to boat negative.

 

[geem]

Keep in mind that they weren’t designed as marine systems so there’s no reason they need to avoid small amounts of interference.
The XS is completely redesigned and massively more efficient but this wouldn’t be possible without using buck/boost circuits, and these are going to have side effects.
It would be nice if someone took the issue seriously and put some thought into mitigation techniques or even properly investigating the problem.
One question I have is whether the VHF sets with interference are properly grounded and whether that makes a difference. I suspect a lot are not, or the ground just connects to boat negative.

How would you suggest properly grounding the VHF?

 

[lustyd]

How would you suggest properly grounding the VHF?

Using the ground connection as per the manual

 

[geem]

Using the ground connection as per the manual

Some suggest

Using the ground connection as per the manual

Raymarine vhf manual has a grounding point and it says in the manual big black letters. DO NOT USE.

 

[bergie]

One question I have is whether the VHF sets with interference are properly grounded and whether that makes a difference. I suspect a lot are not, or the ground just connects to boat negative.

We get interference also on the handheld VHF.

 

[lustyd]

Raymarine vhf manual has a grounding point and it says in the manual big black letters. DO NOT USE.

Navico and SH both say to use it to reduce interference. You don't think it's odd that they install a connector and label it ground but tell you never to use it? Why put it there?

 

[lustyd]

We get interference also on the handheld VHF.

Yes there's not a lot you can do there, if there's a signal you'll pick it up.