VHF licence

[domlee]

I acquired a VHF licence after passing the relevant RYA course about 15 years ago. I have just come out of a coma and am returning to boating. What do I need to do to renew my licence and what the &^%$ is IMSI and DSC? Where can I get more info in plain English?

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[Solitaire]

Hi - First things first. When you took you original VHF licence exam it was for life. In principle it still is and you will still be "able" to operate a marine VHF. Howver since the introduction of the Global Maritime Distress and Safety System (GMDSS) all VHF radios now sold must be compatible and be DSC enabled - Digital Selective Calling. It is this part of the VHF licnece that you will have to "upgrade". On completion of a one day course you can then apply to receive an MMSI number. A 9 didget number unique to your vessel that works as would a mobile phone number. MMSI stands for Maritime Mobile Service Identity.

To learn more go to ICOM user guide for more information.

The course is run over a day and can be undertaken at most RYA training establishments, Adult Ed centres and some Inshore Life boat centres. Although you can do a DSC upgrade course, few schools in fact run them as they take just as much time as the full course, and after 15 years of non use, it would be a good idea too update yourself any way. Costs are around the £75-£90 mark plus £20 for the RYA SRC certificate. Good luck! If you need any more infgo please PM me. If you don't look at my bio, I'll add that I am an SRC Assessor - VHF/DSC

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[Guest]

Many do not upgrade

I know I will take stick for this .... but many who have Restricted RT and or VHF licences from previous have carried on without the DSC / MMSI bits.

All depends really on your crusing ground and expectations.

VHF radios sold indeed have to comply, but that does not account for the millions of older non DSC sets still in use and available second-hand.

I am not trying to knock the new system or convince anyone to not do the courses - what I am pointing out is that you have a choice to stay 'traditional' or go all singing DSC / MMSI


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[Solitaire]

Re: Many do not upgrade

Your right, there is no compulsion to go DSC for leisure craft - all commercial craft must be fully GMDSS'! However, from 2005 listening watches on Ch16 will no longer be required and many Coastguard staions will only have a loudspeaker watch on Ch16. That is not to say that they won't respond and in fact the CG have said that in many ways a loudspeaker system will allow for more people to "hear" a distress alert sent conventionally than was the case on the "dedicated" watch system.
Again it will depend on your crusing area and a lot of people will continue to use handhelds, where even if they are DSC enabaled, are only good for the Distress Alert and would'nt function with the positin data if they are not in their cradle.

I was not saying that everybody MUST get a DSC upgrade, simply answering the original posters questions.

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[Guest]

Forgive my bad wording ..

I support anyone wanting to increase their knowledge and qualifications - don't knock it at all.

What I meant was just to point out the non-compulsory nature of the upgrade.

In fact as we know - yes we are supposed to be licenced and also the boat to have its sticker etc. But the rules actually allow for use in emergency situations without licences etc. BUT that does not mean it is to be condoned.



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[whisper]

Re: Forgive my bad wording ..

Are you sure that the rules allow one to use a VHF in an emergency if you are unqualified? I can't find any rule that states that.

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[alant]

Re: Forgive my bad wording ..

I'm not advocating non-GMDSS Licencing, but, if it's a "real" Emergency, who is going to worry about rules. eg if the Licened VHF operator becomes MOB, the non-licenced operator left on board (without the authority of the MOB, since that person is no longer on board & in control) would surely call a Mayday.
Much better to get wrists slapped for infringing any 'rule' than appearing as a witness in a Coroner's Court to explain why no Mayday was sent!

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[MainlySteam]

Re: Forgive my bad wording ..

It is worldwide generally allowed that any means may be used to summons assistance, so non certified operators or unlicenced sets can be used. In your case I believe it is at least the Merchant Shipping (Radio Installations) Regulations that allow it and they state:

Ships and persons in distress
3. Nothing in these Regulations shall prohibit any ship, survival craft or person in distress from using any means at their disposal to attract attention, make known their position and obtain help.

I know, however, of one case where the crew of a commercial vessel at a wharf summonsed assistance for fighting a fire by using their VHF but were later scolded by the authorities, but no action was taken, because as a telephone was available they should have used that (even though they were properly certified to use the VHF).

John

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[ashanta]

I did the upgrade a couple of years ago. However, the course was run just the same as the basic VHF course with the additional DSC element. I was disappointed as I sail regularly and used/monitor my VHF radio at all time when aboard. In other words IMHO I am resonably experienced. I was the only person on the course (12 of us) who had the VHF licence and had any experience. All the others were learning from scratch. The instructor was excellent and at times used me for reference purposes and other pupils asked me lots questions to which I was happy to answer. The point of this response is that I do not believe the RYA are carrying out an upgrade as such but conducting the full VHF course inclusive of DSC. The additional element could be done in a couple of hours by club RYA representatives. It would save time and money.
Regards.

Peter.

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[domlee]

Hi, clear, succinct and to the point. This has cleared things up. Thanks again.

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[sailorman]

re "coma"
check premium bonds , lottery Nos, ins or pension matured,
+ you may have a lot of unpaid bills or summons for unpaid tax & hopefully your car was "off the road"or a friend had done the "scorn" for you
ps: maggie has gone

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[Cantata]

Re: Many do not upgrade

Regarding dedicated watch on Ch16 by the Coastguard - the previous assurance that headset watch would continue until 2005 was withdrawn last Autumn, and the Watch Manager now has discretion to use loudspeaker watch if he wishes.
But as you say - likely that more in the Ops Room will hear a distress call anyway.

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[SteveA]

I guess it must be up to the trainer - he conducts the full course in a day but only takes an afternoon for the upgrade. Charges £50 for the upgrade and £70 for the full course. That includes the RYA charge and lunch!

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[alec]

I think you make a fair point about the update money and time element.

I did mine recently, on a cold miserable weekend. Have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed the whole day. It's always great to meet other boating people and warm the cockles for the forthcoming season.

Fortunately, this is an RYA Course/social event that we can all enjoy at a very reasonable cost. I accept that people have to earn a living, but it's a shame that other practical courses are out of the reach for many because they cost so much. I feel that the RYA could perhaps look into dedicated amateurs/retired's who enjoy helping others with expenses covered. Perhaps this is already on offer in some parts of the country ?

Regards,



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[VicMallows]

Sorry, but I simply do not agree that £50 and half a day is 'good value' to learn something that 5 minutes reading the instruction manual would have told me. £50 is a significant sum to me and would mean £50 less spent on something of real safety worth. As for 'encouraging' uptake of so-called new technology! (I think DSC was obsolete before ever it came into effect so not bothered).

One thing that really gets me: you used to be able to take 'required exams' at nominal cost after studying by your own devices. Now it seems its nearly impossible to take the so called exams without taking a 'course'. And as for the 'exams' themselves ..... if you can't pass the pathetic multi-choice things they use today, perhaps you shouldn't even own a boat.

Off horse for now

Vic

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[TheBoatman]

Re: Many do not upgrade

Solitaire
I think you should know that a dedicated VHF listening watch end at 00.01 Hrs 22nd September 2003.

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Should read "ended at"

Maybe this would help! In the main this was copied from the MCA site.

The MCA (Coastguard) have announced that as from 00.01 Hrs 22nd September 2003 that a dedicated listening headset watch will no longer be guaranteed on VHF Ch 16.

The introduction of more reliable and automated methods of distress alerting by vessels at sea, via satellite communications and digital selective calling (DSC) and the increasing use of mobile telephones, which is not recommended, in coastal waters for alerting purposes is now requiring Coastguards to keep an ear to these differing methods. Having a Coastguard tied into just one way of communication does not allow Operators to monitor other activities.

Coastguards may now maintain this distress watch either via headset or loudspeaker, but this will be dictated by the risk and operational demand at the time.

“Our state of the art Integrated Coastguard Communications System (ICCS) also provides an instant playback facility for VHF Channel 16, and additionally, equipment shortly to be installed in every co-ordination centre, will provide instant playback on all VHF Channels and will also be available to the Coastguard Operator.
"Despite these changes, HM Coastguard will continue to be responsible for the integrity of VHF Channel 16 which means ensuring that the Channel is only used for distress, urgency and brief safety communications including the announcement of maritime safety information broadcasts, and for establishing other communications which should be transferred to a suitable working channel.

“ We also continue to recommend the installation of effective suitable equipment on vessels and would remind seafarers that mobile phones cannot be totally relied upon when at sea for distress and other emergency calls.”
For further information please contact
Maritime and Coastguard Agency Press Office, on:
(023) 8032 9401
Press releases and further information about the Agency is available on the Web at www.mcga.gov.uk
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by TheBoatman on 08/03/2004 00:28 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Solitaire]

Re: Many do not upgrade

I am basing my information on a personal visit to Solent Coastguard and their response to my questions pertaining to dedicated Ch16. In fact while I was there - in Feb - they had a dedicted person on Ch16. Watch managers have the option depending on circumstances. Sometimes what is written and what is actual do differ!

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[Mike_Martin]

Re: Forgive my bad wording ..

The answer is as you quite rightly state that in a REAL DISTRESS situation where the person in DISTRESS is unqualified but uses to the radio to summon assistance NO-ONE will seek to prosecute.

As mentioned above the Radio regulations allow you to monitor for safety purposes and transmit ONLY when you are in DISTRESS. That is why you can legally have the radio "available for use" with just a Ship Radio Licence and no operator certificate.

Mike


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[Mike_Martin]

Re: Many do not upgrade

I would just like to amplify:

SOLAS Convention (vessels over 300 tonnes), Registered Fishing Vessels, Passenger Vessels, ROROs etc are all now under GMDSS operation. At present some 14,000 UK vessels are equipped with DSC, remove the 900 SOLAS and 1,000 ish of the rest and you're left with circa 12,000 UK pleasure vessels already DSC equipped and not listening to C16, this number is rising radidly and applications are starting to come in thick and fast due to the out of Season re-fits that have taken place this Winter.

Add to this that HMCG can now switch to loud speaker (I hate to do this but I disagree very strongly with the comments about "more chance of being heard on the speaker" as I've been in Falmouth, Dover and Solent when they have been busy) when the requirements of the other systems (MF/HF, DSC Inmarsat, Iridium and the telephone ) that they are mandated to watch so demand.

It is worth remembering that in 1999 C16 became a "working frequency" for distress and safety, it is no longer a "calling" channel. Although the IMO requested that it is watched where "practicable" (what a fantastic beaurocrats' word) in reality that is not happening.

As any of you who have met me will know I am "standard bearer" of the Regiment that declares " what is the point of carrying a radio which will not do the job that you expect it to do"

Mike

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[Guest]

Thank You Mike and all.

I agree that all should upgrade and improve their safety / systems etc. to keep up with technology and circumstances where possible.
The trouble I have is the increasing costs and demands on a limited budget, the increasing load on the boat and increasing rules and regs. It is a personal gripe - not a real factual matter.

I choose at this time to continue with my Icom M1, Swiftech 198 handhelds and Raytheon, Midlands fixed sets - all non DSC and also non CE- but LEGAL in UK as they are all older pre Euro regs sets legally sold and for use in UK etc. Only when I come to replace due to either real redundancy or failure of item to work will I buy DSC etc. - actually I wont have much choice will I ..... and by then they will be at sensible prices and next generation will be out as well !!!

Maybe one day I'll catch up with all you lot .....


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