Vetus M2 C5

[upthesolent]

I've got the above engine which I know is a marinized Mitsubishi.

At the moment it won't start. These are the basics,

Turning ignition key to "glow" I can hear a click.
When I turn it to ignition nothing happens, except I get wisps of electrical blue smoke from the solenoid/starter area.
When I turn the ignition to "stop engine" position I get that click again.

But then sometimes, no clicks at all (and no smoke either)

The other weekend, I finally managed to get the solenoid off (impact screwdriver), then put it back on again. Now, no clicks at all - all seems totally dead, yet there is power in the battery.

All the electrical contacts seem tight, earth wire as well so I'm at a loss. Got a volt meter, but haven't a clue how to use it even if that would help identify where the problem is.

Any ideas please.

Secondly, the engine itself. If I need to buy a solenoid (or Heaven £orbid) a starter motor OE equipment is going to be very expensive, so does anyone know on what Mitsusbishi engine the M2C5 is based on in order that, if needed, I can get cheaper Mitsubishi parts (or even cross reference to non Mitsubishi parts that are compatible).

My level of competence is poor though I did manage to replace the heat exchanger housing last year. Many thanks.

 

[RichardS]

When you say that you got the solenoid off, do you mean you removed the complete solenoid/starter motor assembly? I can't imagine that there are many pre-engaged starters where the solenoid can be removed as a separate item so I'm wondering what you actually removed?

Richard

 

[wolf]

Its an L2C, is your engine free to turn by hand. take the complet starter off and test not easy to to engage the solenoid correctly in place.

 

[duncan99210]

Any chance the engine is waterlocked? Sounds as if you were getting power to the starter but engine not turning over, which is what you can get if it's got waterlocked.

 

[upthesolent]

Thanks for the replies.

OK. I can turn the engine over by hand. Also confirm I've actually taken just the solenoid off which sits piggy back on the starter which is still in situ.

Am I reading Wolf that having taken it off (and just screed it back on) that it may not have engaged with the starter; that that is an awkward job?

Not sure what "tests" to do should I get the whole lot off. What's involved - is it complicated?

Thanks

 

[RichardS]

Thanks for the replies.

OK. I can turn the engine over by hand. Also confirm I've actually taken just the solenoid off which sits piggy back on the starter which is still in situ.

Am I reading Wolf that having taken it off (and just screed it back on) that it may not have engaged with the starter; that that is an awkward job?

Not sure what "tests" to do should I get the whole lot off. What's involved - is it complicated?

Thanks

OK .... if you've managed to separate the solenoid from the starter without removing the whole starter assembly it must clearly be designed like that. Quite how you can be sure the forks are engaged properly when you re-attach it is then the issue.

I would definitely remove the complete assembly. Usually just two bolts. You can then bench test both the solenoid and motor with a good battery and some jump leads. Connect the negative jump lead to the motor casing (or a large negative terminal if there is one) and the positive lead to the large positive terminal. Then bridge between the positive terminal and the small solenoid terminal with a screwdriver. The solenoid should clack and the motor pinion should spring outwards with another thump whilst spinning.

Richard

 

[A1Sailor]

I've just taken the starter motor off my 11HP 2 cylinder Vetus. (TYPE M2C5A352A)
The starter motor wasn't working and short circuiting.
In my Sadler 25 access wasn't easy - I needed help! There are two bolts, one of which is behind the heat exchanger. If you can get access from the port side of the engine roughly in the middle, you'll get at the bolts. If not, you'll get at one but not the other. The engineer tried and tried and tried...even with a flexible extension on his socket set he couldn't shift it. Removing the alternator doesn't help.
He ended up (re)moving the heat exchanger to get at the second bolt, still from in front of the engine - you lift the HE up (I did that bit!) and put the socket extension under it. The whole thing took a couple of hours, but it would have been much quicker had he just "removed" the heat exchanger. At least my cooling system is drained!:encouragement: Engineer is ordering new washers & gaskets...

Starter motor was seized, and is currently with an automotive repairer. New bearing, brushes and solenoid switch - about £90.
New starter motor/solenoid from the Vetus Shop is ~£300.
I think this is the correct one:
http://www.vetus-shop.com/starter-m....html?osCsid=af5eb1d3dc6a1ed4584c69227e38430e
There are only two on the site - the other is for 3 or 4 cylinder engines.

Anything else you want to know? Engine is yellow btw...

Edit:
Page 6 of my engine manual (page 8 of 76 of the PDF) says

The Mitsubishi engine serial number
is stamped on the fuel injection pump.
(arrow)

If you can get that might it help you source "non-Vetus" parts? To be honest just remove the heat exchanger (you say in your post you are an expert!) then take the starter motor/solenoid assembly to an automotive repair place. Mine does alternators and starter motors - and currently has 6 starter motors from boats!!!!!!

 

[wolf]

Thanks for the replies.

OK. I can turn the engine over by hand. Also confirm I've actually taken just the solenoid off which sits piggy back on the starter which is still in situ.

Am I reading Wolf that having taken it off (and just screed it back on) that it may not have engaged with the starter; that that is an awkward job?

Not sure what "tests" to do should I get the whole lot off. What's involved - is it complicated?

Thanks

RichardS has prety much answered your ? had both starter and altanator of mine to check condition befor a long trip and do not recall having to remove heatexchanger.

 

[Plum]

I've got the above engine which I know is a marinized Mitsubishi.

At the moment it won't start. These are the basics,

Turning ignition key to "glow" I can hear a click.
When I turn it to ignition nothing happens, except I get wisps of electrical blue smoke from the solenoid/starter area.
When I turn the ignition to "stop engine" position I get that click again.

But then sometimes, no clicks at all (and no smoke either)

The other weekend, I finally managed to get the solenoid off (impact screwdriver), then put it back on again. Now, no clicks at all - all seems totally dead, yet there is power in the battery.

All the electrical contacts seem tight, earth wire as well so I'm at a loss. Got a volt meter, but haven't a clue how to use it even if that would help identify where the problem is.

Any ideas please.

Secondly, the engine itself. If I need to buy a solenoid (or Heaven £orbid) a starter motor OE equipment is going to be very expensive, so does anyone know on what Mitsusbishi engine the M2C5 is based on in order that, if needed, I can get cheaper Mitsubishi parts (or even cross reference to non Mitsubishi parts that are compatible).

My level of competence is poor though I did manage to replace the heat exchanger housing last year. Many thanks.

If you need a new starter i recommend you contact http://www.startermotor-alternator-store.co.uk i bought a new alternator for my Vetus M3 last year and they knew all the cross references between marine/automotive/commercial applications.

This website gives an extensive crossreference. http://www.a-l-shop.de/4719-Anlasser-MITSUBISHI-VETUS-SOLE-1.6kW-12V.html


Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[upthesolent]

Ok, I got the starter motor off at the weekend. A1 Sailor (thanks) was correct and I had to go through the pulava of removing the heat exchanger housing to get to the second bolt holding the starter to the flywheel casing. The housing also hid the problem. Obviously the connection had been poor for some time and just before the wire can completely loose the odd strand or two with voltage going through caused the wisps of electric smoke.

Now got a friend taking it to a specialist near where he works to see what can be done!!

 

[earlybird]

Unusual starter. Looks like it has a built in reduction gear.

 

[A1Sailor]

Ok, I got the starter motor off at the weekend. A1 Sailor (thanks) was correct and I had to go through the pulava of removing the heat exchanger housing to get to the second bolt holding the starter to the flywheel casing. The housing also hid the problem. Obviously the connection had been poor for some time and just before the wire can completely loose the odd strand or two with voltage going through caused the wisps of electric smoke.

Now got a friend taking it to a specialist near where he works to see what can be done!!

Order the gasket I PMd you about now!!!!!

Reassembly should be relatively easy, but you need a replacement gasket. It costs about £5, but I scoured the country by e-mail to find one. Dealer list is here:
https://www.vetus.com/vetus-locations
Bill Lampard at MEC Marine in Berkshire had two - he now has one! It is part number STM6252. “The Vetus Shop” in Fareham didn't have one. Parts come from NL.

Bill sounded pretty knowledgeable and helpful on the phone, and suggested cleaning out the heat exchanger if you have removed it completely.

 

[upthesolent]

It still won't start:-(. Had to buy a new starter and today fitted it altogether, heat exchanger housing back on and nothing! When I turn the main isolater switches, I remember one of them always made a clicking noise. This clicking actually stopped when I was trying to fathom out what was wrong before buying the new starter.

So, I've found a multimeter and the main battery reads just over 12 volts (the cabin lights work) and then I took another reading from the earth wire bolted to the back of the engine and the live wire firmly affixed to the bolt on the solenoid and getting again, just over 12 volts. . I'm pretty confident I've got it all wired up correctly, but don't know what to, or how to test any other wiring

Any ideas?

Yours in despair

 

[NickRobinson]

Back to basics. Have you got jump leads?
1/ One from battery neg -ve to engine block.
2/ Other one from +ve to large bolted terminal on starter. (many interesting sparks possible!)
3/ Watching dangly bits of body you'd like to keep, touch skinny screwdriver from said bolted terminal to small spade terminal nearby on solenoid body.
4/ Smile happily as engine cranks (new starter, healthy battery, hand turned engine..)
5/ Now do an 'ignition' on, heat cycle and repeat 3...
6/ Smile again, put some charge into the battery, turn off and try and find the dodgy wiring.

Feedback please.

 

[A1Sailor]

It still won't start:-(. Had to buy a new starter and today fitted it altogether, heat exchanger housing back on and nothing! When I turn the main isolater switches, I remember one of them always made a clicking noise. This clicking actually stopped when I was trying to fathom out what was wrong before buying the new starter.

So, I've found a multimeter and the main battery reads just over 12 volts (the cabin lights work) and then I took another reading from the earth wire bolted to the back of the engine and the live wire firmly affixed to the bolt on the solenoid and getting again, just over 12 volts. . I'm pretty confident I've got it all wired up correctly, but don't know what to, or how to test any other wiring

Any ideas?

Yours in despair

There is a very good chance your isolator switch has burned out due to the starter motor short circuiting. Mine had.
My engineer bypassed it by putting a screwdriver across the two terminals then put both leads onto the same pole. I then replaced the switch.

 

[NickRobinson]

There is a very good chance your isolator switch has burned out due to the starter motor short circuiting. Mine had.
My engineer bypassed it by puttg a screwdriver across the two terminals then put both leads onto the same pole. I then replaced the switch.

A1, There are three terminals on the solenoid, which two do you mean? Linking the two large ones will spin the starter but not engage it. Putting both leads on the same terminal ditto permanently

 

[A1Sailor]

A1, There are three terminals on the solenoid, which two do you mean? Linking the two large ones will spin the starter but not engage it. Putting both leads on the same terminal ditto permanently

I'm afraid I don't know. My engineer refitted/rewired the starter motor/solenoid and put the heat exchanger/gasket back together. He then couldn't get the engine to turn over.
Once I showed him the correct isolator switch settings he worked out what the problem was. I have three isolators:
1. Engine start batter isolator - this had blown.
2. Domestic battery isolator.
3. A switch that has a lead from the domestic battery to the starter motor, to combine the two batteries. This is for use if the engine start battery is discharged.
It is the equivalent to a 1/2/both/off switch.
Turning all three to "on" brought life to the engine where there had been none! Isolator 1 was superfluous, though, having blown.
Switching only "1" on, with 3 off, meant no power to the engine/starter motor.

Edit:
I mean be bypassed the blown isolator switch.

My engineer bypassed it by putting a screwdriver across the two terminals then put both leads onto the same pole. I then replaced the switch.

The starter motor/solenoid were wired up "appropriately" - whatever that is.