VAT on Used Boats.

Alicatt said:
If you are wanting to export the car then yes you do have to.
Had to do that for my car, get a document from the original garage showing VAT paid so I could import it to Belgium, this was just before the B word deadline last December.

Edit: I had bought the car new from that dealer, but still had to supply a new statement from the garage showing the VAT paid
They did accept this screen grab of the purchase

View attachment 127367
After a lengthy test, I got a 5 page document detailing the vehicle's weights, measures, capacities, etc. added to which I had to supply my "attest van woonst" (proof of where I live from the local council), insurance, driving licence - which by this time was a Belgian one , and you get a nice little A5 page with the registration
View attachment 127368 View attachment 127369
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Wasn’t referring to export .This threads not about export or indeed any cross border .
Its about U.K. to U.K. boat transaction and I brought the similarity of EU ( where compulsory reg is mandatory) uk car to car U.K. to U.K. transaction.

The reason I brought this up was ………

Replying to Mr Googlers inference , @ post #15 wherebyif I understood his post correctly, he suggested a buyer might start a vat conversation with me after viewing the “ V5 “ equivalent and ghost shadows of Italian reg on display.
Coming back with a chip down .

He won’t .

Like any U.K. person buying a registered car in the U.K. for use on U.K. roads .VAT does or any previous taxes levied just does not enter in the conversation(s) .DOMESTICALLY.

My marina office example of HMRC stalking for VAT free boats stands .Yes in theory but nil in practice .

There will of course be a few examples of boat owners getting into officialdom rows as with 32 Million private cars on the DVLA s ( or what ever ) there obviously will be some fraudulent entries.
But again who asks the car dealer “ excuse me before talk prices / test drives ….can you confirm the validity of the V5 ? “
I am worried a copper or HMRC might come knocking on my door , do a car VAT / tax sweep of the road .
Therefore I,am knocking the VAT off the price ….here is my offer .

Theory yes , practice nil .
 
Portofino said:
.

The reason I brought this up was ………

Replying to Mr Googlers inference , @ post #15 wherebyif I understood his post correctly, he suggested a buyer might start a vat conversation with me after viewing the “ V5 “ equivalent and ghost shadows of Italian reg on display.
Coming back with a chip down .
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Nope…was talking in general. Haven’t a clue about Italian arrangements but good to know they are a bastion of accuracy for paying taxes and doing things by the book ?

Not everything is about you ya know???
 
oldgit said:
A boat sale in UK was lost a few months ago.
The purchaser had shaken hands on the deal and the survey was satisfactory. When the buyer made arrangements to get the boat back to Eire he was told that the boat would need to pay 16K in tax to enable the boat to be shipped.
The buyer came back and asked for a further discount for the same amount.
The sale of course collapsed.
As both the seller and the buyer were private individuals, neither were aware of the extra Brexit financial costs involved with moving boat from UK to EU.
The broker on the other hand should have been aware. ?
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One wonders where the buyer and seller gave been for the past 5 years to not have spotted the big B thing, and that it had huge consequences.
The broker probably assumed nobody could be so ......... uninformed.
 
DavidJ said:
I think the new owner advisor has got himself a bit confused with the EU VAT 31st Dec proof of location which I think is only needed if the boat has been in the EU for more than 3 years.
By all means give him a copy of the mooring invoice to keep him quiet but ridiculous request.
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Not sure who is confused here. Not sure hy 3 year rules has any relevance to this. But proof if where boat was on 31/12/20 is important to all boats (if expect to cross borders or sold) as this helps establish VAT status - UK or EU depending on where was at that time.
 
What constitutes proof? The fact that I was on lockdown and my boat which resides in the UK hadnt been used for a year and I certainly dont have marina receipts from Ireland to prove it was never there, and my own berthing receipts are annual and mean nothing other than my space was reserved for me because my boat wasnt there either! It was in fact being held hostage within the Castle Keep with visitor privileges denied. Be difficult to prove it was there too but I do have a photo

gqHmhLA.jpg
 
BruceK said:
What constitutes proof? The fact that I was on lockdown and my boat which resides in the UK hadnt been used for a year and I certainly dont have marina receipts from Ireland to prove it was never there, and my own berthing receipts are annual and mean nothing other than my space was reserved for me because my boat wasnt there either! It was in fact being held hostage within the Castle Keep with visitor privileges denied. Be difficult to prove it was there too but I do have a photo

gqHmhLA.jpg
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I got an email from your harbour master confirming location ?
 
The wretched man! After I specifically told him not to divulge my whereabouts to any scruffy Manx men on the scrounge!
 
oldgit said:
Presume a mooring invoice covering the date concerned would be sufficient.
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Seems good .
But really the deal has been done so why do anything.
I doubt the thousands of used boats sales n the uk in the last year have had this issue.
 
MartynG said:
Seems good .
But really the deal has been done so why do anything.
I doubt the thousands of used boats sales n the uk in the last year have had this issue.
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No but the general advice seems to be keep hold of some record of where boats was on 31/12/20, like a marina or boatyard invoice, just in case. Generally costs nothing to hang onto this.
 
dunedin said:
Yes, good news for some - but not relevant to the OPs requirement, which was about proving the boat’s location in the UK at the end of the transition period.
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Actually totally relevant. It shows that behind the office parties, that the government is listening to the CA and others and if, as John outlines, it proceeds to UK VAT paid boats being able to return to the UK without penalty (by original exporter or not) then it will be a relief to all of us including the OP’s friend. The argument for not paying VAT twice is very sound.
By all means collect legally binding documentation of your boats‘ whereabouts on the night of the 31st Dec 2020 but make sure it’s legally binding to potential HMRC satisfaction, no point otherwise.
 
DavidJ said:
Actually totally relevant. It shows that behind the office parties, that the government is listening to the CA and others and if, as John outlines, it proceeds to UK VAT paid boats being able to return to the UK without penalty (by original exporter or not) then it will be a relief to all of us including the OP’s friend. The argument for not paying VAT twice is very sound.
By all means collect legally binding documentation of your boats‘ whereabouts on the night of the 31st Dec 2020 but make sure it’s legally binding to potential HMRC satisfaction, no point otherwise.
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You are confusing two completely different issues here. The original question was about evidence of VAT payment on an old boat that changed hands in the UK. Guess like many (the majority?) of such boats there is no record of VAT payment simply because when the boat was new few people bothered to keep the record - and even now there is no legal requirement to keep it. For a boat that has never left the UK and has always changed ownership here there is no chance that HMRC would ever show any interest because all those transactions between private owners do not involve VAT. Knowing where the boat was on 31/12/2020 is a comfort (there were similar qualifying dates in 1992) but in reality for UK based boats and owners irrelevant.

The second issue concerns boats that are now potentially moving from one customs and VAT area to another. In this case VAT is normally payable in the destination area subject to some very limited reliefs of which the most common is Returned Goods Relief. Nothing new about the principle but since the UK left the EU it now applies to boats coming from the EU in addition to from outside the EU. RGR has been time limited (to 3 years) right from 1992 subject to a "normally" which HMRC have commonly exercised for returning long term cruisers. The relief has always been limited to the person who took the boat out of the country. All that the proposed new change does is remove the time limit to reflect the fact that there are many boats in the EU where the owners would qualify for the relief but have exceeded the time limit. Good news for those people even though in reality the number who might benefit is probably small. This is not to belittle the efforts of the CA and RYA in getting the change as it does mean a big change in thinking at the treasury, but I would imagine the loss of revenue would be small as many of those affected would not have returned their boats if they had to pay VAT.

In no way does this change the fact that the norm is that boats can have VAT paid on them more than once. This is because VAT is a tax on transactions NOT on assets, and moving a boat from one customs area to another is a transaction - and always has been. There is no argument for not paying VAT twice, it is perfectly logical once you understand what VAT is. Of course you may think it unfair but that does not change the facts.

Not a chance the rule will be extended to all boats that originally paid VAT in UK being allowed to enter the UK without paying VAT. Under the terms of the withdrawal agreement these are now EU goods - that is deemed EU VAT paid and entitled to free circulation within the EU. Just think it through with an example going the other way. My last boat had VAT paid in Greece in 2007 but moved to the UK in 2010. If it was still in the UK on 30/12/2020 it would be UK VAT paid and if an EU resident wanted to buy it for use in the EU VAT would be payable on entry to the EU. However I sold it in 2015 to a UK resident who subsequently took it to Spain. Although it is now EU VAT paid he could bring it back into the UK under RGR even though VAT was never paid in the UK!

You have to forget all about past VAT payments - who paid and where. The withdrawal agreement determined the status of boats and it is the nature of the current transaction that determines if VAT is payable.
 
..............me and one or two others must have missed the the fact that written in grate big letters on the other side of that bus was
PS. You, WILL be paying 20% more to bring in a boat from the EU to UK post BREXIT. :)
 
In mid- March this year we were offered and obtained a printed statement by our marina management confirming our boats presence in our regular berth as at 2300 on 31/12/20 the brexit transfer time , I had heard of other local marinas doing similar. our document lists the HIN number, PART 1 registry number, builders name , type etc
 
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