VAT on Used Boats.

[oldgit]

A club member recently sold a Fairline Phantom which had been in his ownership for decade or two.
He has been subsquently contacted by the buyer asking for proof that the boat was in the UK on whatever the required date was.
Presume a mooring invoice covering the date concerned would be sufficient.
The new owner is keeping it in the UK but has been advised that he will need proof of its status if he wishes to sell it on ?

 

[DavidJ]

I think the new owner advisor has got himself a bit confused with the EU VAT 31st Dec proof of location which I think is only needed if the boat has been in the EU for more than 3 years.
By all means give him a copy of the mooring invoice to keep him quiet but ridiculous request.

 

[Aardee]

Surely the new owner just needs proof that UK VAT has been paid at some point, usually a copy invoice from the first sale?

 

[dune16]

Unless the buyer suspects the boat was not in UK waters Dec 31st?

 

[Mr Googler]

It’s not unreasonable and just confirms a vat paid boat was in the uk at 11pm 31/12/2020 so retained uk vat status.

When I bought my current boat I asked the local harbour master to email me confirming the boats location. Was happy to do so and just removes any doubt down the line ?

 

[DavidJ]

We are still in the time zone for bringing UK VAT boats back from the EU so it really doesn’t matter if it was in the EU on 31st Dec
ref
Update to HMRC Brexit Rules | CA

 

[Mr Googler]

We are still in the time zone for bringing boats back from the EU so it really doesn’t matter if it was in the EU on 31st Dec
ref
Update to HMRC Brexit Rules | CA

That is true but this is an easy step to avoid any issues down the line.

if I was buying a boat in 2 years time and it had been in the EU on 31/12/2020 and was owned by a uk resident, I’m then into asking for proof it came back before whatever date blah blah blah.

If proof of whatever is easy to get now….why wouldn’t you

 

[DavidJ]

That is true but this is an easy step to avoid any issues down the line.

if I was buying a boat in 2 years time and it had been in the EU on 31/12/2020 and was owned by a uk resident, I’m then into asking for proof it came back before whatever date blah blah blah.

If proof of whatever is easy to get now….why wouldn’t you

I can understand that in that situation, but I think oldgits case is different that the new owner wants proof that it was in the UK on 31st Dec and not in the EU or anywhere else.
If there was no evidence of the boat ever being outside the UK it seems a bit unreasonable for UK boat owners to have to provide proof.

 

[julians]

if the boat has been sold and the seller has the money for it etc, ie the deal has been concluded , If I was the seller I would not be going very far out of my way to help.

It is reasonable to ask for this kind of proof , but it should have been asked for before the sale, if it was required.

 

[LBRodders]

Either way, its a question that you would ask before the sale if it worries you!


**damn beat me to it!

 

[Mr Googler]

Either way, its a question that you would ask before the sale if it worries you!


**damn beat me to it!

keep up at the back ??

 

[LBRodders]

keep up at the back ??

A close second - story of my life!

 

[oldgit]

A boat sale in UK was lost a few months ago.
The purchaser had shaken hands on the deal and the survey was satisfactory. When the buyer made arrangements to get the boat back to Eire he was told that the boat would need to pay 16K in tax to enable the boat to be shipped.
The buyer came back and asked for a further discount for the same amount.
The sale of course collapsed.
As both the seller and the buyer were private individuals, neither were aware of the extra Brexit financial costs involved with moving boat from UK to EU.
The broker on the other hand should have been aware. ?

 

[Portofino]

I can’t see HMRC deploying scarce resources ( one sniffle / cough in the office public sector workers and “ all out “ declared ) plodding up and down wind sweep gawd forsaken U.K marinas wondering if any newbies turning up were from the EU .
Or grilling a guy in Soton who arranges a new berth for his newly del tripped 20 y + tub that’s just arrived from the muddy Medway .

You know HMRC busting the marina office taking away hard drives to investigate berth contract start dates , work out new arrivals.

Theory and everyday practice with this are miles apart .

 

[Mr Googler]

I can’t see HMRC deploying scarce resources ( one sniffle / cough in the office public sector workers and “ all out “ declared ) plodding up and down wind sweep gawd forsaken U.K marinas wondering if any newbies turning up were from the EU .
Or grilling a guy in Soton who arranges a new berth for his newly del tripped 20 y + tub that’s just arrived from the muddy Medway .

You know HMRC busting the marina office taking away hard drives to investigate berth contract start dates , work out new arrivals.

Theory and everyday practice with this are miles apart .

Whilst true….makes absolutely no odds when buying or selling.

“We have a lovely Itama here sir. Can’t be sure if VAT has been paid so you could be on the hook for 50k more but don’t worry….they never check ??”

 

[julians]

A boat sale in UK was lost a few months ago.
The purchaser had shaken hands on the deal and the survey was satisfactory. When the buyer made arrangements to get the boat back to Eire he was told that the boat would need to pay 16K in tax to enable the boat to be shipped.
The buyer came back and asked for a further discount for the same amount.
The sale of course collapsed.
As both the seller and the buyer were private individuals, neither were aware of the extra Brexit financial costs involved with moving boat from UK to EU.
The broker on the other hand should have been aware. ?

the broker should have been aware - and I'm sure he was. But the buyer has to take some responsibility too, afterall the buck stops with them.

I've recently been through this process, selling a boat in the med - the number of potential uk buyers that hadn't got a clue that vat would need to be paid if they took the boat back to the uk was staggering. I assumed initially that they would be aware of the requirement so didnt mention it, but when they did more homework they found out and all dropped out of the buying process when they discovered it, causing me a significant amount of work for the sale to go nowhere. So in the end I just took to asking them if they were aware they'd have to pay uk vat if they were taking it to the uk at the first point of contact - this weeded out all the people who were clueless.

I also had quite a few people who wanted me to import the boat into the uk under the RGR scheme (but they'd pay for the transport) , and then they'd buy it in the uk. They knew I wasnt the original exporter (so therefore didnt qualify for RGR) , but still tried to convince me to do it anyway. There are some chancers out there.

 

[Portofino]

Whilst true….makes absolutely no odds when buying or selling.

“We have a lovely Itama here sir. Can’t be sure if VAT has been paid so you could be on the hook for 50k more but don’t worry….they never check ??”

Don’t bring those EU states Italy inc that have robust boat reg schemes into this .
To get on the register privately they need proof of VAT paid at the authorities office .This is done for the first owner .
For Brits in the U.K. scene think cars and the car tax ,VAT etc when a car is first reg and you get the V5 from Swansea .

I mean do any U.K. folk ever walk into a car dealership and blurt out to the sales team ….ave you got proof of vat / tax paid pointing to all the used cars with number plates sat on the forecourt?

For my boat yup I have copies of the marine version of a U.K. V5 for cars .That’s all I need at offload time to prove vat was paid .
Indeed the decal ghosts still on the hull = officialdom in Italy do actually walk on pontoon s and tally off the reg numbers with there lap tops .

VAT analism is a U.K. phenomenon, sorry boat anal ism .
But you are right it two arse holes get together in a U.K. boat transaction = sale collapse.Or it only takes one I guess .

 

[Portofino]

the broker should have been aware - and I'm sure he was. But the buyer has to take some responsibility too, afterall the buck stops with them.

I've recently been through this process, selling a boat in the med - the number of potential uk buyers that hadn't got a clue that vat would need to be paid if they took the boat back to the uk was staggering. I assumed initially that they would be aware of the requirement so didnt mention it, but when they did more homework they found out and all dropped out of the buying process when they discovered it, causing me a significant amount of work for the sale to go nowhere. So in the end I just took to asking them if they were aware they'd have to pay uk vat if they were taking it to the uk at the first point of contact - this weeded out all the people who were clueless.

I also had quite a few people who wanted me to import the boat into the uk under the RGR scheme (but they'd pay for the transport) , and then they'd buy it in the uk. They knew I wasnt the original exporter (so therefore didnt qualify for RGR) , but still tried to convince me to do it anyway. There are some chancers out there.

Did you get any interest from EU folk?
Reason I enquire is I sold my S/Skr to a German , and basically I only deal , boats , cars property with EU folks .
Brits are always looking for either angles that don’t exist or like you say over complicate - your “ can you bring it back “

 

[julians]

Did you get any interest from EU folk?
Reason I enquire is I sold my S/Skr to a German , and basically I only deal , boats , cars property with EU folks .
Brits are always looking for either angles that don’t exist or like you say over complicate - your “ can you bring it back “

not much - Had one chap from ireland interested, but in the end decided that the boat wasnt right for his infirm father to get on and off from easily enough.

I think the boat market in majorca is 'different' to the uk - in majorca I think most foreign (ie not majorca locals) buyers are looking for 30 foot and up boats, not much demand for the smaller stuff. Those who are in the market for something at the smaller end want something new (or newer). The majorca locals all want fishing boats.

In the end I sold it to a smallish uk broker/dealer who is bringing it back to the uk (and paying vat) who intends to sell it in the uk for the usual UK price - I think they'll make a few k profit on it, and it'll work out ok for them.

 

[Alicatt]

I mean do any U.K. folk ever walk into a car dealership and blurt out to the sales team ….ave you got proof of vat / tax paid pointing to all the used cars with number plates sat on the forecourt?

If you are wanting to export the car then yes you do have to.
Had to do that for my car, get a document from the original garage showing VAT paid so I could import it to Belgium, this was just before the B word deadline last December.

Edit: I had bought the car new from that dealer, but still had to supply a new statement from the garage showing the VAT paid
They did accept this screen grab of the purchase


After a lengthy test, I got a 5 page document detailing the vehicle's weights, measures, capacities, etc. added to which I had to supply my "attest van woonst" (proof of where I live from the local council), insurance, driving licence - which by this time was a Belgian one , and you get a nice little A5 page with the registration