Mr Googler
Well-Known Member
Wrong attachment....
Last edited:
VAT on boats
- Thread starter JB
- Start date
DavidJ
Well-Known Member
Also I’m not seeing legislation that illustrates goods can have dual VAT status.
(Maybe the word “goods” should be “transactions” but you get my drift)
All we have is some well presented arguments.
A Senario
I take my boat (UK VAT paid, in the Med 15 years) back to the UK this year and in say 4 years, want to take it back to the EU for let’s say at least 4 years. I turn up at Calais with my boat on a trailer and show a letter from my marina and a photo showing EU location on 31/12/2020......and the customs say “No EU VAT due”.......Really!
Last edited:
jrudge
Well-Known Member
In the case above no it would not be EU VAT paid. Goods loose their status after 3 years. at 4 years you would be at the mercy of EU legislation ( well actually I believe the legislation of the member state you arrive in) as to if they have like the UK exceptional circumstances etc - they probably do given the harmonisation of legislation until now - however you would not be an EU resident and that may real you out of and exception anyway.
However .... when you arrive in Calais assuming you were stopped you can prove it was in the EU on 31/12 ( so first tick) the issue then is when did it leave ? I am not advocating being misleading to a customs officer, however in the absence of a carnet type situation ( where in the old days you used to pay the tax in bond and get it back when you left) I am not sure that they would have any proof of when it left.
However, if they dont accept your version of events at face value ( luck of the draw) then generally with the tax man the burden of proof is on you not them.
However .... when you arrive in Calais assuming you were stopped you can prove it was in the EU on 31/12 ( so first tick) the issue then is when did it leave ? I am not advocating being misleading to a customs officer, however in the absence of a carnet type situation ( where in the old days you used to pay the tax in bond and get it back when you left) I am not sure that they would have any proof of when it left.
However, if they dont accept your version of events at face value ( luck of the draw) then generally with the tax man the burden of proof is on you not them.
Irish Rover
Well-Known Member
The absence of specific legislation prohibiting something doesn't mean you will be allowed to do it. Double taxation agreements are not confined to income tax and I think you will find tax authorities share information in many areas in order to assist in the prevention of tax evasion. As you describe it the owners who took steps to place their boats in the EU on 31/12 mainly did it to enable them to sell it in the EU at a future date without paying the relevant EU treasury the VAT which would otherwise have been due. Is that tax evasion?
You call it a "unique position" but EU customs authorities may see it as an unintended anomaly which is easily solvable - they simply say no and then you have to fight it.
jrudge
Well-Known Member
However the vat authorities have no idea at all of the VAT status of any asset. The returns are not asset specific - they are simply net payments of in and out.
The rules are clear. They are union goods. They remain so for life unless removed for more than 3 years.
Another state in the world happens to allow them in as VAT paid goods.
Please point out the fraud or evasion. All rules of all states involved have been followed.
The rules are clear. They are union goods. They remain so for life unless removed for more than 3 years.
Another state in the world happens to allow them in as VAT paid goods.
Please point out the fraud or evasion. All rules of all states involved have been followed.
Irish Rover
Well-Known Member
I admire your unflinching confidence in your interpretation of the "rules". By the way, I never mentioned fraud and I doubt anyone concerned was intending or engaged in fraud. However there is a very thin line between tax avoidance and tax evasion and I wouldn't be confident that customs authorities will see things the way you do. Time will tell.
DavidJ
Well-Known Member
Thanks jrudge for your detailed and clear reply
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Precisely the opposite. It would always be VAT paid where it is. And if the buyer wants VAT paid in the other jurisdiction, the current owner only needs to get it there before the sale.
ShaneAtSea
Well-Known Member
RYA have all the information regarding
The RYA have all the information regarding boat ownership and Brexit which can be found at the link below...
Brexit - what happens next? | Current Affairs | Knowledge & Advice | RYA - Royal Yachting Association
There is also information on the HMRC website regarding Notice 8 at the link below...
Notice 8: sailing your pleasure craft to and from the UK
The RYA have all the information regarding boat ownership and Brexit which can be found at the link below...
Brexit - what happens next? | Current Affairs | Knowledge & Advice | RYA - Royal Yachting Association
There is also information on the HMRC website regarding Notice 8 at the link below...
Notice 8: sailing your pleasure craft to and from the UK
jrudge
Well-Known Member
If you are an EU resident ( ie specifically NOT a UK resident) then you can bring it to the UK under temporary importation for upto 18 months.
Alicatt
Well-Known Member
A good few years ago my father was building a house, also building an extension on to our hotel, the VAT inspector seen that as a red flag and decided we needed a thorough forensic examination of VAT paid, not paid and reclaimed.
He went through every single item bought and sold also with respect to the two building works going on, one was chargeable and the other was not.
It came down to the only thing he could find was that we had reclaimed the VAT on the dog food, he took one look at our nice placid black Labrador and said "that's not a working dog, you cannot claim the VAT back for her food"
Next morning the Lab was laying on the half landing of the stairs watching the front door, mum was in reception beside the stairs and awaiting the arrival of the VATman, when he arrived he started to open the door, mum issued the command and the Lab flew off the half landing with hackles raised, teeth bared, growling and snarling at the VATman, pinned him in the corner without touching him and held him there until mum released her.
We were allowed to claim the VAT back from the dog food.
We got a clean bill of health from the Inland Revenue and we continued to build the house and extension,
So, the HMRC can, and do, go into the nitty gritty of each and every item if they so wish, and you better have the paperwork to back it up.
Nito
Well-Known Member
We were looking to buy an EU boat in December just gone. We had the surveyor and transport company all ready to get the boat back before the deadline. Unfortunately a Belgian put a downpayment on the boat...
A month later, the transaction has not completed. Should that sale fall through and we were to buy the boat, (which was in the EU on the 31st Dec and still is, therefore EU vat paid status) we would clearly have to pay 20% vat on entry to the UK. That is just sods law.
What I can't find, say we were to swallow this and pay UK vat on entry. We would then have an invoice/proof of UK vat paid status. The boats paperwork would also show EU vat paid status presumably. At the point of paying UK vat, will the EU status be lost?
Or, could it be Vat paid in both because it was in EU at the date of witching and had EU vat paid status, and then VAT has been paid in the UK so it has been now paid in both areas and there is documentary evidence of this?
It's a horrible thought to think that vat would keep having to be paid on the same item again and again every time there is an opposing transaction, when it has already been paid at least once in both jurisdictions already!
A month later, the transaction has not completed. Should that sale fall through and we were to buy the boat, (which was in the EU on the 31st Dec and still is, therefore EU vat paid status) we would clearly have to pay 20% vat on entry to the UK. That is just sods law.
What I can't find, say we were to swallow this and pay UK vat on entry. We would then have an invoice/proof of UK vat paid status. The boats paperwork would also show EU vat paid status presumably. At the point of paying UK vat, will the EU status be lost?
Or, could it be Vat paid in both because it was in EU at the date of witching and had EU vat paid status, and then VAT has been paid in the UK so it has been now paid in both areas and there is documentary evidence of this?
It's a horrible thought to think that vat would keep having to be paid on the same item again and again every time there is an opposing transaction, when it has already been paid at least once in both jurisdictions already!
DavidJ
Well-Known Member
Can you have EU VAT and UK VAT?
I’ve seen compelling arguments for and against. In my option the jury is out on this one.
I’ve seen compelling arguments for and against. In my option the jury is out on this one.
ShaneAtSea
Well-Known Member
Well yeah....The UK VAT on boats is 20% but its only 5% in Malta
EU VAT Regulations for Yachts - NYB Lefkas
VAT Rates in the EU
| Member States and Accession States | Super Reduced Rate | Reduced Rate | Standard Rate |
| Belgium | – | 6 | 21 |
| Czech Republic | – | 5 | 19 |
| Denmark | – | – | 25 |
| Germany | – | 7 | 16 |
| Estonia | – | 5 | 18 |
| Greece | 4.5 | 9 | 19 |
| Spain | 4 | 7 | 16 |
| France | 2.1 | 5.5 | 19.6 |
| Ireland | 4.4 | 13.5 | 21 |
| Italy | 4 | 10 | 20 |
| Cyprus | – | 5 / 8 | 15 |
| Latvia | – | 5 | 18 |
| Lithuania | – | 5 / 9 | 18 |
| Luxembourg | 3 | 6 | 15 |
| Hungary | – | 5 / 15 | 20 |
| Malta | – | 5 | 18 |
| Netherlands | – | 6 | 19 |
| Austria | – | 10 | 20 |
| Poland | 3 | 7 | 22 |
| Portugal | – | 5 / 12 | 21 |
| Slovenia | – | 8.5 | 20 |
| Slovak Republic | – | – | 191 |
| Finland | – | 8 / 17 | 22 |
| Sweden | – | 6 / 12 | 25 |
| United Kingdom | – | 5 | 17.5 |
Dino
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know if a secondhand boat can be bought in the UK ex VAT? I understand that a broker or private seller probably has no way of reclaiming VAT on a boat but if the broker owned the boat is there any mechanism for reclaiming VAT if the boat is being sold overseas?
Alicatt
Well-Known Member
That article must be about 10 years old with the UK VAT rate at 17.5%
j24jam
Well-Known Member
Yes, but only if it is being sold by a VAT registered entity and they were able to reclaim the VAT when they purchased it
jrudge
Well-Known Member
Or they are brokering a vat unpaid boat
