sailorman
Well-Known Member
Your staff are very skilled, awesome
Van der Valk 23M in build
- Thread starter Yoeri
- Start date
andy59
Well-Known Member
That is a work of art Yoeri , it would allmost be a shame to cover it all up with internal trim 
.
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Yoeri
Well-Known Member
Thanks sailorman!
I fully agree Andy! In my opinion it really is a piece of art!
Yoeri
I fully agree Andy! In my opinion it really is a piece of art!
Yoeri
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Yup agree with that. Its a thing of beauty. Question for Yoeri and maybe this has been answered somewhere else but generally speaking is building a hull in aluminium more expensive than steel or grp and if so, by how much roughly?That is a work of art Yoeri , it would allmost be a shame to cover it all up with internal trim
vas
Well-Known Member
tricky question Mike, considering the ease with which you can customise to your hearts contents without messing with molds and everything...
V.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Actually, vas, I'm trying to understand why more yards do not manufacture from aluminium as the obvious advantage is, as you say, customisation possibilities. Is it a cost issue or a skills issue or some other problem? How much of an issue is electrolytic corrosion? How easy/difficult is aluminium to repair compared to steel/grp?
BartW
Well-Known Member
yes, I'm also interested to know,
especially for the lower quantity custom builders,
not for production builders who make 10 a year or so, then the advantage of a GRP mould is obvious.
how is the weight compared to a similar GRP hull ?
impressive stuff yoeri,
have been following this tread with much interest,
just one remark;
while I've alway's been interested in and fan of Pod drive systems,
a triple config never did it for me,
I see many disadvantages, and no real advantage.
Why ?
OK I know,
with 3 smaller in stead of 2 bigger engines, you have more cabin space,
but also that could be solved with clever cabin design.
but again,
overall I'm very impressed !
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I don't know whether the advantage is obvious. Laying up a grp hull and making the framework of stringers and bulkheads is very labour intensive although I guess the skill requirement is maybe less
BartW
Well-Known Member
yes agree,
but with the allum hull you have a lot of labour with outside surface finishing and painting,
I'm not sure how this ballances
Yoeri
Well-Known Member
Dear all,
Thanks for the replies!
All very interesting!
@Deleted User
Mike, it is very hard to say what the 1/1 balance in costs/labour is between a fiberglass boat and a aluminium ship. The labour and costs to make the plug/mold must be distributed over the number of boats which comes out of teh mold. Most of the time the first boat that comes out of the mold must be plastered/primed too because the small imperfections of the mold. The following (abt. 5) boats which will come out of the mold will be good/properly. And thereafter the mold has to be repaired again for the next 5. This process will also take a lot of time and work.
When the bare aluminium casco (hull + superstructure) goes to the paintingshed it will take our painting department about 3000/3200 hours (for a Continental II 23.00 Flybridge) to finish it (including the following):
- Blasting
- First primer
- Conserving
- Delta DB sound isolation coating
- Plastering
- Sanding
- Final coating
- Clear coating / Varnish
- Underwater ship antifouling
- Waterline
- Deck plastering / leveling
- Antislip layers on the surfaces (if required)
Depending on whether the final coating is gloss or metallic an aluminium boat can easily be repaired partially (in case of a gloss coating). When the boat is coated in metallic the relevant part of the hull has to be repainted completely.
@BartW
Dear Bart, it is always hard to compare the wheigh of ships because you to name an example:
Princess 72 Flybridge (l.o.a. 22.35m x 5.49m) = 39.000 / 40.000 kg (empty)
WvdV CII 23.00 Flybridge (l.o.a. 23.09m x 5.60m) = 44.650 kg (empty)
As you can see (just mention the VdV is slight larger in lenght and in width) there is only a slight difference in the weight of the two vessels (2nd generator, hydraulic stabilizing etc. of the WvdV left aside).
For many of our customers the inside space is very importand. I agree that it partly can be solved by a smart interior layout.
But we like working with Volvo IPS system because the perform very good in our hulls, and in this case we can only put engines in untill IPS-1200 (biggest IPS system there is at the moment). In this case we have to put more than 2 engines in to reach speeds that most of our customers would like to reach (24/25 knots and up).
This was also the main reason, when we first started with the Volvo Penta IPS system put in 4 IPS-600 (D6 engine with 435 hp) in our first Continental II 20.00 wheelhouse IPS boat (year 2007). At that moment the IPS-600 system was the biggest there was. This ship reached up to 33 knots.
But we are not bound to Volvo (nor the IPS system) engines. In case our customer does want 2 biggers engines with a conventional drive system (CAT, MAN, MTU etc) this is certainly not a problem and this system will be fitted in his Continental.
Thanks for mentioning!
Yoeri
Thanks for the replies!
All very interesting!
@Deleted User
Mike, it is very hard to say what the 1/1 balance in costs/labour is between a fiberglass boat and a aluminium ship. The labour and costs to make the plug/mold must be distributed over the number of boats which comes out of teh mold. Most of the time the first boat that comes out of the mold must be plastered/primed too because the small imperfections of the mold. The following (abt. 5) boats which will come out of the mold will be good/properly. And thereafter the mold has to be repaired again for the next 5. This process will also take a lot of time and work.
When the bare aluminium casco (hull + superstructure) goes to the paintingshed it will take our painting department about 3000/3200 hours (for a Continental II 23.00 Flybridge) to finish it (including the following):
- Blasting
- First primer
- Conserving
- Delta DB sound isolation coating
- Plastering
- Sanding
- Final coating
- Clear coating / Varnish
- Underwater ship antifouling
- Waterline
- Deck plastering / leveling
- Antislip layers on the surfaces (if required)
Depending on whether the final coating is gloss or metallic an aluminium boat can easily be repaired partially (in case of a gloss coating). When the boat is coated in metallic the relevant part of the hull has to be repainted completely.
@BartW
Dear Bart, it is always hard to compare the wheigh of ships because you to name an example:
Princess 72 Flybridge (l.o.a. 22.35m x 5.49m) = 39.000 / 40.000 kg (empty)
WvdV CII 23.00 Flybridge (l.o.a. 23.09m x 5.60m) = 44.650 kg (empty)
As you can see (just mention the VdV is slight larger in lenght and in width) there is only a slight difference in the weight of the two vessels (2nd generator, hydraulic stabilizing etc. of the WvdV left aside).
For many of our customers the inside space is very importand. I agree that it partly can be solved by a smart interior layout.
But we like working with Volvo IPS system because the perform very good in our hulls, and in this case we can only put engines in untill IPS-1200 (biggest IPS system there is at the moment). In this case we have to put more than 2 engines in to reach speeds that most of our customers would like to reach (24/25 knots and up).
This was also the main reason, when we first started with the Volvo Penta IPS system put in 4 IPS-600 (D6 engine with 435 hp) in our first Continental II 20.00 wheelhouse IPS boat (year 2007). At that moment the IPS-600 system was the biggest there was. This ship reached up to 33 knots.
But we are not bound to Volvo (nor the IPS system) engines. In case our customer does want 2 biggers engines with a conventional drive system (CAT, MAN, MTU etc) this is certainly not a problem and this system will be fitted in his Continental.
Thanks for mentioning!
Yoeri
Last edited:
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Now, that's a Freudian slip, if I've ever seen one...
Dare I say pretty much similar to comparing an alu boat to a steel ship?
Yoeri
Well-Known Member
Mistake MapisM, sorry haha!!
You're sharp as ever!
Y
You're sharp as ever!
Y
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Admit it, you hoped that someone spotted that, didn't you? 
BartW
Well-Known Member
what Make of stabilizers are you using ?
here you confirm what I've alway's thought,
that you have a "good" relation with Volvo, and that Volvo doesn't have a bigger IPS.
As I said, I don't like a triple and for sure not a quad config (sorry for that)
You could have a much better "ship" feel twin engine solution from another manufacturer imho.
side note; I still have a 28ft boat with 2 x VP D3's in there, with which I have a love - hate relation
, in a nut shell; good performance but too many issues
Yoeri
Well-Known Member
You caught me MapisM!
Yoeri
Well-Known Member
Hi Bart,
For regular fin stabilizers we use Naiad.
Yes, that's right!
I understand exactly what you mean! It is indeed the feeling that you have sailing the ship!
Now I must admit that if there is indeed something wrong (error or mechanic problems) with the Volvo machinery, that Volvo is often quickly at the spot with the Volvo Action service (usually within 24 hours with us).
Yoeri
MapisM
Well-Known Member
A connoisseur choice 'fiuaskme, but don't tell that to jfm...
BartW
Well-Known Member
interesting thanks,
they have a distributor in Maastricht iirc,
thats next door (7km) to my home, might give them a visit,
I'm considering stabs for my old ship.
good to know, I'm quite happy with Volvo Kant Belgium,
they are close to my regular Karnic cruising area (Zeeland)
I had some words with them but at the end we still get along.
my problems where a combination of:
- bad luck
- human errors from Volvo engineers
- week design issues in the D3
- very hard and intensive usage (divers)
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Bart, just FYI: aside from the joke in my last post, I think that jfm actually had a point when he said that Naiad lost the plot a bit with the zero speed technology.
If you're also interested in that specific functionality (which btw is imho overrated, and nowadays widely demanded mostly because "fashionable" than anything else), I'd rather look at ABT first.
Imperial One
Well-Known Member
Mapis and Bart,
Hi chaps. For what it is worth I am currently negotiating a big ship and the potential owner has recently chartered a Palmer Johnson 120 with zero speed gyro stabs fitted to it. He has insisted that he does not have them fitted to his new boat as the noise and constant whining of them kept him awake at night!
Naiads have always been brilliant and eliminate a very large amount of movement. In my experience of these, and other makes, Naiad has the thumbs up from me every time but, as ever, you pay your money and make your choice. There are cheaper options out there but .........
Hi chaps. For what it is worth I am currently negotiating a big ship and the potential owner has recently chartered a Palmer Johnson 120 with zero speed gyro stabs fitted to it. He has insisted that he does not have them fitted to his new boat as the noise and constant whining of them kept him awake at night!
Naiads have always been brilliant and eliminate a very large amount of movement. In my experience of these, and other makes, Naiad has the thumbs up from me every time but, as ever, you pay your money and make your choice. There are cheaper options out there but .........
