Van der Valk 23M in build

acbruce said:
Interesting fuel consumption figures. Can I be cheeky and ask JFM (if he reads this) how they would compare with Match? Does IPS show any fuel consumption benefits in a triple installation?

Do you have to run all three engines when running at low speeds? Can you just run on centre or on Port and Starboard engines?
Click to expand...


Hi acbruce,

No problem! Would be nice to compare!
In fact, it does not have particular fuel advantages compared to a dual drive. But because the Volvo D13-900HP engine is the biggest until now we have no choice but to expand to triple or quadruple.

It is not really interesting to only sail at only (for instance) the centre engine (in emergency situations, it is of course possible), but this will not give fuel economy benefits. More likely she will consume relatively more because the other stationary propellers will act like massive resistance surfaces. And because the outer engines are turned off, the tails (which normally function as rudder too) will not correspond and operate. This makes sailing on a single (or in this case 2 drives) not very interesting, rather uninteresting.

Yoeri :)
 
acbruce said:
Interesting fuel consumption figures. Can I be cheeky and ask JFM (if he reads this) how they would compare with Match? Does IPS show any fuel consumption benefits in a triple installation?

Do you have to run all three engines when running at low speeds? Can you just run on centre or on Port and Starboard engines?
Click to expand...

Apologies JFM if my memory is playing up but I recall you saying M1 consumed 18 lpnm at 20 knots? So this would give 360 lph, therefore slightly more than the VDV?
 
Somewhere I have the consumption figures for a quad installation boat that the owner is delighted with. He reckons it is his best ever performing and frugal boat to run across the whole speed spectrum. His previous boats have been GRP mainstream UK boats over many years. WE have just had a tidy up and archived loads of paperwork so once I find them I will send them over to Yoeri to post as I don't want to steal his thunder;)
 
rafiki_ said:
Apologies JFM if my memory is playing up but I recall you saying M1 consumed 18 lpnm at 20 knots? So this would give 360 lph, therefore slightly more than the VDV?
Click to expand...
Fair play to Yoeri for publishing those figures but are they all that great? Back of a fag packet calc says 0.3nmpg @ 22kts which doesn't sound all that economical for a 23m boat. Maybe jfm can comment how that compares to Match1? And then as NickH says there's the cost of servicing 3 engines
However, it would be interesting to compare the weight of the VdV 23m to Match1. Maybe building in aluminium, which obviously has customisation advantages, means a heavier boat than the equivalent length grp boat?
 
Deleted User said:
Fair play to Yoeri for publishing those figures but are they all that great? Back of a fag packet calc says 0.3nmpg @ 22kts which doesn't sound all that economical for a 23m boat. Maybe jfm can comment how that compares to Match1? And then as NickH says there's the cost of servicing 3 engines
However, it would be interesting to compare the weight of the VdV 23m to Match1. Maybe building in aluminium, which obviously has customisation advantages, means a heavier boat than the equivalent length grp boat?
Click to expand...


Hi Mike

The CII 23.00 Flybridge with the triple IPS-1050 units was an extended wheelhouse version where not much attention was paid to the total weight (what usually happens with custom boats) due to granite counter tops in the galley, flybridge with hardtop, a built-in piano etc.) :)
Displacement unloaded was approx. 55 tons according to my data.

The triple IPS-800 boat had a 49.5 tons displacement unloaded.

Yoeri
 
Yoeri said:
Hi Mike

The CII 23.00 Flybridge with the triple IPS-1050 units was an extended wheelhouse version where not much attention was paid to the total weight (what usually happens with custom boats) due to granite counter tops in the galley, flybridge with hardtop, a built-in piano etc.) :)
Displacement unloaded was approx. 55 tons according to my data.

The triple IPS-800 boat had a 49.5 tons displacement unloaded.

Yoeri
Click to expand...
Thats a bit heavier than jfm's Squadron 78 I think, so it looks like the extra weight has probably negated the advantage of the IPS drives
 
Is it? IIRC, jfm once told that M1 was about 60T loaded, and if so the difference is nothing to call home about.
 
Hi guys,

A quick update!
I have uploaded another set of photo's, recently made.
As you can see the interior is starting to get shape. All plumbing and piping as been done, as well as all the initial electric preparations.

Subfloors and underlay are all fitted on a rubber frame to prevent cracking and noises during heavy weather. Also to prevent the final floor to make undesired sounds if it should be heavily loaded/used.

The wood chosen by the owner is Entandrophragma cylindricum Sprague or known to many as one of the Mahogany species. The growth area of this particular type of wood is Congo, Africa.

All interior parts are hand built and fitted piece by piece. All parts are connect to each other to avoid that the interior will make cracking sounds during heavy waves.

From now on it will go faster, I will try to post weekly photo updates.

Yoeri

jbIxRy0.jpg

Saloon overview

U34yydb.jpg

Saloon portside cabinets

mdvBnUJ.jpg

Subflooring detail

vbHHbfs.jpg

XF8xl2E.jpg

Saloon stairs cabinet

SVHW0bo.jpg

Lowerdeck

9EifYLD.jpg

Partition wall helm / saloon

zNKHS0x.jpg

Helm from outside

6iTnEKB.jpg

Helmstation

b8UNdZV.jpg

Galley foundation

hwFbZI4.jpg

MbnV3u3.jpg

Sofa in Master state (PS)

acywP1u.jpg

Owner's bathroom (SBS)

nzQjaI9.jpg

Crew quarters

B3pMtZW.jpg

Master state overview
 
Thanks for these Yoeri. I am constantly amazed that builders see fit to install such rubbish helm seats in multi million pound boats. Didn't the owner think it might be a good idea to put a couple of multi adjustable Stidd seats at the helm instead of a couple of fixed foam planks?
 
Deleted User said:
Thanks for these Yoeri. I am constantly amazed that builders see fit to install such rubbish helm seats in multi million pound boats. Didn't the owner think it might be a good idea to put a couple of multi adjustable Stidd seats at the helm instead of a couple of fixed foam planks?
Click to expand...

Hi Mike,

I am just as amazed as you are regarding fitting a bench instead of the multi adjustable seats. I think in our production the ratio bench / multi adjustable seat(s) is 50/50. Sometimes the owners are 100% convinced that they would like a bench/sofa at their helmposition no matter what we suggest.

Just a picture of how it otherwise would look (with autopilot joystick implemented in the armrest):

caN7FH2.jpg


WikAsmx.jpg


Yoeri
 
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Yoeri,

I assume that some of your customers owner drive, especially as maneuvering has become so much simplified with the IPS joystick system, so I was wondering what is the LLL on the WVDV 23m and 26m ?

There has been some debate on load line length here, but I must confess I never really got to understand how LLL is actually calculated. Can you shed some light?
As the max LLL with an “International Certificate of Competence” needs to be <24m, what is the biggest WVDV that fits this requirement?

I know it is a little thread drift, but you might be able to shed some light on the question.

EDIT : I found this link http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg5212/lllength.asp which explains LLL in more detail. How does this translate to the WVDV design ?
 
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View attachment 32097

Have to agree with you there Mike. For the extra cost which is minimal against the boat cost the comfort level goes stellar against a bench seat, especially a yacht designed for days at sea and long hours at the helm. Quite fancy giving these a try in our next build, just have to convince the client, he has been a Stidd fan for years.

Loving the build thread though, very nicely put together yacht and customizable to heck and back it seems.
 
Yoeri said:
I am just as amazed as you are regarding fitting a bench instead of the multi adjustable seats.
Click to expand...
Why? As a builder, you should know that there are also good reasons for NOT fitting a seat like the one shown in your last pics.
I know many will disagree with what I'm saying, but comfy helm seats are way overrated imho, because ergonomy and comfort don't necessarily go hand in hand, when it comes to helming a boat.
The last time I made a three days non-stop passage, on a boat with a fantastic natural leather Stidd seat, whoever was supposed to be in command regularly fell asleep when sitting on it at night.
Thanks God, there was always someone else in the p/house taking care that the helmsman and the rest of the crew shouldn't be awakened by some unpleasant grinding noise when hitting a tanker... :eek:

And just to give one of many possible examples, have a look at the following p/house of a 50m explorer ship built to REALLY go anywhere on this planet:
http://www.mondomarine.com/files/gallery/steel/tribu/interni/9.jpg

Yeah, I know, I know that boats like this are handled by the pros, while the owner enjoys the journey elsewhere - or possibly reach the vessel by plane, once delivered to its destination.
But just to put things in perspective, this is the master cabin of the same boat:
http://www.mondomarine.com/files/gallery/steel/tribu/interni/10.jpg
Now, why do I have a funny feeling that it wasn't cost saving the reason for not fitting a comfortable helm seat with all the bells and whistles...?! :D
 
newWave said:
Yoeri,

I assume that some of your customers owner drive, especially as maneuvering has become so much simplified with the IPS joystick system, so I was wondering what is the LLL on the WVDV 23m and 26m ?

There has been some debate on load line length here, but I must confess I never really got to understand how LLL is actually calculated. Can you shed some light?
As the max LLL with an “International Certificate of Competence” needs to be <24m, what is the biggest WVDV that fits this requirement?

I know it is a little thread drift, but you might be able to shed some light on the question.

EDIT : I found this link http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg5212/lllength.asp which explains LLL in more detail. How does this translate to the WVDV design ?
Click to expand...


Hey newWave,

Yes, some of the customers drive themselves.
I will try to explain how we measure the LLL:

Deepest part of the hull until deck-level (so not the bulwark) x 0.85
On this height (level) we measure the foremost part of the stem until the rearmost fixed part of the hull.

This distance we multiply by 0.96 resulting in the LLL.

For the 23m it will be the following calculation:

2710mm (distance deepest part of the hull to decklevel) x 0.85 = 2304mm

Length of the foremost part of the stem until the rearmost fixed part of the hull on this height is 21,05m.
21,05m x 0.96 = 20,21m

LLL of the CII 23.00 = 20,21m



For the 26m it will be the following calculation:

2937mm (distance deepest part of the hull to decklevel) x 0.85 = 2496mm

Length of the foremost part of the stem until the rearmost fixed part of the hull on this height is 23,08m.
23,08m x 0.96 = 22,16m

LLL of the CIII 26.00 = 22,16m



I hope I have explained it somewhat clearly. :-)

In fact we can build (without crazy changes) up to 28 meter matching the 24 MCA LLL standard.


Nautical said:
View attachment 32097

Have to agree with you there Mike. For the extra cost which is minimal against the boat cost the comfort level goes stellar against a bench seat, especially a yacht designed for days at sea and long hours at the helm. Quite fancy giving these a try in our next build, just have to convince the client, he has been a Stidd fan for years.

Loving the build thread though, very nicely put together yacht and customizable to heck and back it seems.
Click to expand...

Thanks Nautical!


MapisM said:
Why? As a builder, you should know that there are also good reasons for NOT fitting a seat like the one shown in your last pics.
Click to expand...
It actually was my personal opinion, rather than being from the perspective as a builder :-)


MapisM said:
The last time I made a three days non-stop passage, on a boat with a fantastic natural leather Stidd seat, whoever was supposed to be in command regularly fell asleep when sitting on it at night.
Thanks God, there was always someone else in the p/house taking care that the helmsman and the rest of the crew shouldn't be awakened by some unpleasant grinding noise when hitting a tanker... :eek:
Click to expand...

Funny that you mention this, because it is SO true! They can be TOO comfortable as well!

I have to say that money is never the issue. They usually find a bench to suit the interior more (just a matter of taste) or simply find a bench cozy ...



Yoeri
 
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