Poey50
Well-Known Member
I expect I can find one if you want one.
Using Supermarket Diesel ?
- Thread starter Rafiki
- Start date
pvb
Well-Known Member
On what basis do you feel qualified to dispense advice to real boatowners, who may rely on your advice?
[70521]
Well-Known Member
I have not one but two filters. A 30 micron primary filter and a 10 micron filter on the engine, Volvo Penta 2002.
But I have seen the benefit in a cleaner burn.
Our mechanics work on all sorts of diesel engines and I trust their knowledgeand experiance.
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NotBirdseye
Well-Known Member
Actually such advice comes from a seasoned boat owner (see Patrick Laine's vblogs). I put the disclaimer in there purposefully for people to check.
@Sandy,
Most people don't notice the difference between using one type of diesel or the other, but if you can notice it and you think it's worth the money (and at £6.00 extra probably not so bad in the round) then by all means. The information I rely on to support my basis for it doesn't matter is advice from the RAC, AA and a number of documentaries on whether it's worth going for the premium fuels, caveat is that most of that research applies for cars. Though I'd have thought boat engines would be even less sensitive.
Speaking of which, what's the view on home brew bio-fuel? In a number of early landrovers, you could practically tip vegetable oil with a little ethanol into the tank and it'd run just fine.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
Home brew bio has no quaility control and I would not touch it with my spinnaker pole.
Momac
Well-Known Member
Presumably more than a few 5 minute walks and dinghy trips were required?
Momac
Well-Known Member
This year I have been paying 99p at the 60/40 split when buying red at marinas.
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Local guy with a big old wooden pilot boat. 8 cyl Gardner donk, just ordered up the local heating bloke and loaded a couple of tonnes. It was in the Marina and nobody blinked. Paid about €0.67 /lt. While we paid €1.30 for legal white at the pump.
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Then there was the skipper on a biggish mobo, who paid 12,000 euro to fill up in Portimao, on his way to the med. Not his money, of course. Down there, it was road pump price..
PeterBoater
Well-Known Member
Very many thanks for the results of your comprehensive and wide-ranging survey, covering tens of thousands of boats. How many of those were the older diesel engines to which I referred, and which I know are liable to severe damage to the seals from modern DERV or whatever you call it in the EU?
Bru
Well-Known Member
They do and they don't
Some parts of the regulations do indeed only apply to petroleum but the site license elements cover all fuels dispensed on the site, making no distinction between petrol and diesel (this is probably not what was intended but that's how it is)
The site license is a license to dispense fuel, not any one type of fuel, and it is the site licence that stipulates container size and quantity limits
[70521]
Well-Known Member
Can you point us at the research and what seals are damaged?
PeterBoater
Well-Known Member
Google gives sources, including:
http://www.canaljunction.com/boat/diesel_fuel.htm
http://www.hurleyownersassociation.co.uk/pages/diesel.htm
http://www.kingfisherboatservices.co.uk/blog-BMC-Marine-Engines.php
But as an engineer you would know all this.
NotBirdseye
Well-Known Member
So I checked out those sources and they seemed a bit inconclusive, I think these ones get to the point much quicker.
https://biocubeco.com/faqs/will-biodiesel-damage-seals-and-other-components/
https://extension.psu.edu/using-biodiesel-fuel-in-your-engine
A Bio Oil producer and an Academic source. Exactly which seals are damaged isn't specified but both articles indicate that it is the seals and hoses made from 'natural rubber'. or "Buna N rubber".
https://biocubeco.com/faqs/will-biodiesel-damage-seals-and-other-components/
https://extension.psu.edu/using-biodiesel-fuel-in-your-engine
A Bio Oil producer and an Academic source. Exactly which seals are damaged isn't specified but both articles indicate that it is the seals and hoses made from 'natural rubber'. or "Buna N rubber".
[70521]
Well-Known Member
Thanks Luminescent.
Might explain why all my pipe work does not use rubber. There are a few seals in the system but they are replaced as part of maintenance.
As you say it is all a bit conslusive, no hard evidence of failures due to the use of white and I expect that most failuers are due to engines not being properly maintained.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
Thanks PeterBoater.
The Canal Junction page is of interest and looks like the author has come to the same conclucions as me.
As an engineer I had worked a lot of it out. Its good to see that others are coming to the same conclusions. Good quality fuel, high turn over of fuel, regular inspection and maintenance of your tank is the key. I am in the fortunate position of having a tank that is easy to remove and is cleaned every three years.
Momac
Well-Known Member
I use a preventative fuel treatment.
I believe heating oil is a lower grade of fuel.
Otherwise isn't all diesel the same thing apart from some red fy added or not.
I believe heating oil is a lower grade of fuel.
Otherwise isn't all diesel the same thing apart from some red fy added or not.
fisherman
Well-Known Member
I haven't scanned the whole thread, but my local diesel engineer said he wouldn't use supermarket fuel. All from the same spout but the additives go in the tanker. I found that branded or 'super' petrol costs maybe 5% more but gave me 8% better mileage. Vintage car folk won't use supermarket fuel.
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
The only things that potentially could be adversely affected by different fuels are the diaphragm in the lift pump and the seals in the injection pump. The question is what were they and are they now made of? I suspect that they have always been made from synthetic rubbers, butyl or nitrile and are unlikely to be affected by the addition of small amounts of FAME Biodiesel.
The other things differentiating red and white is the sulphur content which is said to aid lubrication particularly in the fuel injection pump however as millions of pumps on cars seem to survive this would not seem to be a great problem. Then there is the potential for hydrolysis of the FAME to produce acids in the sump which could be detrimental but again if reasonable annual maintenance and oil change is done then this should not be a factor.
What is most likely to be a problem is the water content of the fuel and supermarket fuel is virtually always going to be far lower than that from a marina. It won't help of course if boats fuel tanks are frequently left half full or lower allowing condensation to occur on the tank sides with the water ending up in the bottom of the tank.
The other things differentiating red and white is the sulphur content which is said to aid lubrication particularly in the fuel injection pump however as millions of pumps on cars seem to survive this would not seem to be a great problem. Then there is the potential for hydrolysis of the FAME to produce acids in the sump which could be detrimental but again if reasonable annual maintenance and oil change is done then this should not be a factor.
What is most likely to be a problem is the water content of the fuel and supermarket fuel is virtually always going to be far lower than that from a marina. It won't help of course if boats fuel tanks are frequently left half full or lower allowing condensation to occur on the tank sides with the water ending up in the bottom of the tank.
CLB
Well-Known Member
Heating oil is not the same as red diesel. Red diesel is the same as white diesel but with a dye added. Heating oil is 28 second, diesel, red light or white, is 35 second
