Using oven as safe(r) charging area for lithium batteries?

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fredrussell

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This thread inspired by the ‘insurance re lithium’ thread currently running. I use the vague term “lithium” on purpose, as I’m referring here to portable batteries from outboards, scooters etc rather than LiFePo house batteries.

Would the oven on a boat contain a battery fire? I’ve always charged my Torqeedo battery in this manner but accept it may be only a slight improvement on charging in the cabin. My oven has no piezoelectric ignition so no chance of forgetting battery is in there and lighting oven!

Assuming my method less than ideal, would an airtight metal box stop a battery burning during charging?
 
fredrussell said:
This thread inspired by the ‘insurance re lithium’ thread currently running. I use the vague term “lithium” on purpose, as I’m referring here to portable batteries from outboards, scooters etc rather than LiFePo house batteries.

Would the oven on a boat contain a battery fire? I’ve always charged my Torqeedo battery in this manner but accept it may be only a slight improvement on charging in the cabin. My oven has no piezoelectric ignition so no chance of forgetting battery is in there and lighting oven!
Click to expand...
Won't the cable 'hold' the oven door open. I prefer to charge batteries where I can see them rather than hidden.
 
It could be that a device, like a rail mounted stainless BBQ could be the answer. Devices charge safely over the side of the boat, instead of a auto fire extinguisher you have an auto ejector tray to dump your burning battery over the side...
 
Intense fire compromises gas pipework integrity and gas fire now starts making matters worse. Assuming you have a gas oven. Then again, if gas is switched off at the bottle that risk is eliminated to just the gas in the pipe.

Charging in accordance with the manufacturers instructions, should be safe.

I think the lithium fire extinguishers could be a good idea to carry onboard if you have such devices, and, or buy one of the fire proof bags supplied for exactly this risk.
 
Metal box with high temperature insulation... probably about as safe a place as you'll find anywhere on a boat. Assuming the gas is off, obviously.

You're right to be wary of small electronic devices with lithium batteries. Even an electric toothbrush can burn down a house. Cheap devices may not have sophisticated charge controllers built in.

It's probably counter intuitive, but your toothbrush is more dangerous than your (correctly installed) LiFePO4 bank.
 
Every dentist in the developed world from the UK, Australia and to China recommends an electric toothbrush. They are sold in supermarkets and mail order - everywhere.

How many of the 10s or 100s of thousands catch fire? (and burn a house down) - and as a comparison how many houses burn down from faulty electric blankets, gas BBQs etc etc.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
Every dentist in the developed world from the UK, Australia and to China recommends an electric toothbrush. They are sold in supermarkets and mail order - everywhere.

How many of the 10s or 100s of thousands catch fire? (and burn a house down) - and as a comparison how many houses burn down from faulty electric blankets, gas BBQs etc etc.

Jonathan
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They're not dangerous in absolute terms, just more dangerous than a properly installed LiFePO4 system that might have hundreds of times greater capacity.

The main risk with electric toothbrushes is that they get left on charge permanently.

Phones also catch fire when charging, but we tend not to leave them unattended for so long.
 
Gas to oven is indeed switched off when I’m charging. The downside of oven for this purpose is that it’s not air tight, of course.

Are toothbrushes lithium powered these days then? My one is a few years old and uses Ni Mh cell.
 
RunAgroundHard said:
Intense fire compromises gas pipework integrity and gas fire now starts making matters worse. Assuming you have a gas oven. Then again, if gas is switched off at the bottle that risk is eliminated to just the gas in the pipe.

Charging in accordance with the manufacturers instructions, should be safe.

I think the lithium fire extinguishers could be a good idea to carry onboard if you have such devices, and, or buy one of the fire proof bags supplied for exactly this risk.
Click to expand...
I did not know either of those two devices existed.

If it is not too much trouble, do you have a link to such a fire extinguisher and a special bag, please?

No worries if too busy etc.
 
Sea Change said:
They're not dangerous in absolute terms, just more dangerous than a properly installed LiFePO4 system that might have hundreds of times greater capacity.

The main risk with electric toothbrushes is that they get left on charge permanently.

Phones also catch fire when charging, but we tend not to leave them unattended for so long.
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I did not know phones caught fire.

Why is this please?

I know some people leave their phones on charge overnight, well past 100% when they should only charge to about 80%.
 
Cerebus said:
I did not know either of those two devices existed.

If it is not too much trouble, do you have a link to such a fire extinguisher and a special bag, please?

No worries if too busy etc.
Click to expand...

Both are linked in this thread:-

B

Thread 'Insurance for an electric yacht conversion'

Hi all,

Trying to get a contemporary take on this so haven't delved too deeply into outdated info on the site.

I am looking for insurance for a 26ft yacht (built in the 1970s) with a an electric motor conversion powered by lithium batteries. The install is part of a full renovation that includes complete replacement of and upgrades to the yacht electrical system.

Some insurers I have spoken to ask for professional installation and sign off, others just sign off, however professional installers I have spoken to will not sign off diy installs.

Anyone out there had any experience of...
 
RunAgroundHard said:
Both are linked in this thread:-

B

Thread 'Insurance for an electric yacht conversion'

Hi all,

Trying to get a contemporary take on this so haven't delved too deeply into outdated info on the site.

I am looking for insurance for a 26ft yacht (built in the 1970s) with a an electric motor conversion powered by lithium batteries. The install is part of a full renovation that includes complete replacement of and upgrades to the yacht electrical system.

Some insurers I have spoken to ask for professional installation and sign off, others just sign off, however professional installers I have spoken to will not sign off diy installs.

Anyone out there had any experience of...
Click to expand...
Thanks.

The website is a bit thin.

Only way to buy is to send them an email an ask.

I will do a bit more research.

AvSax fire containment bags and the kind of electronic devices that can go in them

A bit of their website states:

“There have been 460 verified incidents involving lithium batteries in US airspace or on US aircraft alone between March 2006 and December 31, 2023.”

That strikes me as a low figure, yet they are basing their marketing upon it.

They also mention a recall of Samsung things; that does not lead mean other phones and laptops burst into flame if left on charge (which is still a silly thing to do).

I have more questions than answers, so I will keep delving.
 
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To the OP, oven with gas turned off seems like a practical boat owner method as others have said.
 
fredrussell said:
This thread inspired by the ‘insurance re lithium’ thread currently running. I use the vague term “lithium” on purpose, as I’m referring here to portable batteries from outboards, scooters etc rather than LiFePo house batteries.

Would the oven on a boat contain a battery fire? I’ve always charged my Torqeedo battery in this manner but accept it may be only a slight improvement on charging in the cabin. My oven has no piezoelectric ignition so no chance of forgetting battery is in there and lighting oven!

Assuming my method less than ideal, would an airtight metal box stop a battery burning during charging?
Click to expand...
Is your oven between where you sleep and your exit? That would be an important consideration for me if I wanted to charge overnight.
 
Use of an oven for charging lithium batteries may well give you more peace of mind and even be safer. So do it.
However my mind boggles at the lithium batteries I have in my home. Lap top computers phones flash lights tools etc mean I have like 20 or more and I am sure I am just average. Yes our fire brigade are grabbing every opportunity to tell us charging lithium, is a fire hazard. But considering the number of lithium batteries being charged this must be small.
It does seem to me that electric scooters and bikes are the greatest risk. Perhaps thy try to charge too quickly. So I dunno (fat dumb and happy) ol'will
 
Could you charge your dinghy battery...er...in your dinghy, and have your dinghy moored alongside?

If you could run mooring line and charging cables past the battery, there seems at least a chance that'll cast itself off and blow away, and not become a fireship bearing down on your vessel.

I suppose it might become a fireship bearing down on a super-yacht though.

Is there a Singeing-the-King-of-Spains-Beard clause in your insurance?
 
Battery fires from electronic devices is a risk, so all we need to do is be aware of the risk and consequences. Put a little bit of thought into what we would do if a lithium ion battery from one of our devices went on fire. The bags and special fire extinguishers have been mentioned, but many of us have fire blankets installed in case the chip pan bursts into flames (-; Hence we have a solution, better than the ubiquitous dry powder or a bucket of water. I carry fire resistant gauntlets and safety goggles in my flare box, so they could be used as well.

I am not likely to do anymore than use what I have. During my rewire, I fitted dual port USB chargers at most bunks, cockpit shelf, navigation table, so I must be a ticking time bomb, if I am paranoid.
 
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