Using a Honda petrol generator offshore

chrisb said:
I don't think that there is any question as to whether or not a petrol generator will charge a battery at sea. The question is whether or not it is practical taking into account the conditions likely to be experienced on the passage to the Azores under race conditions to use a free standing genset in the cockpit
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I'd be after a wind vane first.......
 
chrisb said:
I don't think that there is any question as to whether or not a petrol generator will charge a battery at sea. The question is whether or not it is practical taking into account the conditions likely to be experienced on the passage to the Azores under race conditions to use a free standing genset in the cockpit
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That would be my thought too.
Will these gensets work heeled over or rolling in swell, let alone with green spray on deck?
 
I always imagined that gensets like the EU1.0i are small enough to be hung over a bar in a vented stern locker where they could gimbal to some extent.
 
^^ I have used a Honda 1000 at sea quite a bit, including in the southern ocean.

They have an oil pressure cut off switch that will kill them if you are rolling heavily. You can do two things to avoid that - slightly overfill the oil sump (which I have done with no apparent ill effect) or you can snip one wire to disable the cut-off. The unit will then work fine in tough conditions. They are remarkably stable.

They will run a 60 amp charger, if it is an efficient design. If it is an in-efficient charger it will stall the generator above about 45 amps - so a good charger gives you significant gains

The Honda 1000 used to be the offshore charging source for the mini transat fleet, as the greatest power to weight ratio (and inexpensive) - but they have now switched to fuel cells (see: fuel cells), which are an interesting cruising alternative also - no noise and no exhaust gas, but more cost and the fuel more difficult to get.
 
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Thanks for your contribution, Evans - thats really helpful. I was thinking partly of having a generator on board so that I can use it to charge the batteries if we are heeling too much to use the main engine for any period of time (oil starvation), and partly so the batteries can still be charged if there is a failure of the main engine alternator or other crucial component. If they can be used on a mini Transat, I guess it will be do-able on my Starlight 39 !
 
^^
We got the Honda when we spent a winter in Patagonia - no sun for solar, and tucked way into coves so no wind, and I don't like to run the engine just for battery charging.

But it has also proven useful on passage. I Would "prefer" to have one of the Watts and Sea hydrogens but they are simply too expensive and you need to be doing some decent speed before they really kick in.

And as you say, the Honda is reassuring to have on board simply as a backup power source. We have twin alternators, but there are several common failure modes that could take them both down. We used to have a wind vane, but have taken it off and if you are going to depend on an autopilot you really need to be assured if electricity.
 
Hi Evans, You said originally that you had used the Honda in the Southern Ocean . I took this to mean regular use on passage and therefore in big seas. It appears that you used it mainly in coves tucked away from the wind?
My experience of the conditions likely to experienced on passage to the Azores in June/July are is of frontal systems with strong winds ,big seas and often in the western Approaches poor visability . I may of course always have been unlucky but since I have done the passage several times and have known many boats retire from The Azab sailed concurrently I believe not .
A starlight 39 is likely to have electrical set up that will consume power . It is likely that a 40 - 60 amp battery charger powered by a generator will need to be run for between 2 and 4 hours a day to provide enough battery power .
My contention is not that a Honda gererator could be used but that to be used safely and regularly it would need to be fixed to the boat with a proper exhaust system.
Do look at the Water -Gen from Eclectic Energy which has similar performance to the Watt - Sea at almost half the price . I am fitting one myself.
regards chris
 
I have an old Yamaha generator and a Honda eU 20i, both have 12V outlets. However, I know that the Yamaha 12V outlet is not regulated and am pretty certain that the Honda 12V isn't either. If so, it wouldn't be the best way to recharge a 12V battery (I think it might get up to 17.8V powering a small 12V load).

I have to agree that OP need to look at power consumption to work out if he will have enough fuel (assuming it's ever calm enough to use). Surprised that someone said solar was very expensive. Perhaps he was talking about flexible panels sold for "marine" use. I've found rigid panels to be pretty cheap. I think I paid around £200 for 145W (65W + 2x40W) and average around 55-65Ah/day around Spanish Rias in mid-summer (from memory as I don't have my records with me).

Good plan to have redundancy, solar, water/wind, alternator/generator. Cost mounts up with multiple systems but I imagine solar would give the best return for money spent.
 
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passage to the Azores in June/July are is of frontal systems with strong winds ,big seas and often in the western Approaches poor visability
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Horses for courses, if that is what you are expecting, you should get a wind gen.
My wind gen was useless crossing Biscay, no wind, and what there was came from behind! Mains gen really paid its way.
 
chrisb said:
Hi Evans, You said originally that you had used the Honda in the Southern Ocean . I took this to mean regular use on passage and therefore in big seas. It appears that you used it mainly in coves tucked away from the wind?

Sorry for my poor unclear writing. We originally got it for at anchor in patagonia, but once we had it, we started using it at sea on passage. We have now run it on passage quite a bit/for quite a few miles (for instance we used it on our 9000 nm non-stop leg from cape horn to fremantle). I will say that I watch the weather and tend to charge up the batteries (one way or another) before say force +7, rather than charging during a blow. Despite that, sometimes we need to charge during a blow, and it has always been fine.


A starlight 39 is likely to have electrical set up that will consume power . It is likely that a 40 - 60 amp battery charger powered by a generator will need to be run for between 2 and 4 hours a day to provide enough battery power.

That could be true, but if it is I would very politely suggest that it might be beneficial to examine your entire electrical system (charging, storage and consumption), as it is not very convenient no matter what you decide about the honda. Enough battery bank to be able to go at least 3 days without charging is rather more convenient - allows you to pick when you want to charge - like when motoring thru a calm patch.

My contention is not that a Honda gererator could be used but that to be used safely and regularly it would need to be fixed to the boat with a proper exhaust system.

That is certainly one perspective. However, I will say that I disagree with you, and put my live where my mouth is :) First, I have never had the unit tip over and because of the oil cut-off switch a simple fixed mount would not work very well because the unit often needs to be 'shimmed' to be relatively flat. If it is fixed so it is flat (at anchor) it will not work when heeled close reaching (unless you clip the cut off wire). Second, I run the unit in the cockpit and have never felt under any exhaust threat. In very calm conditions/light winds I put it on the swim platform, and I progressively move it forward into protection as the conditions get rougher but the exhaust is always blown away.
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The one main thing I don't like about the honda is the noise. Quite honestly I usually set it up and running and then go below and close the hatch/door for an hour. My door is foam cored and a good sound insulator. Occasionally I sit outside with it, when I need to actively sail the boat. It is bearable, but I do (usually) also use ear plugs.

I would look quite closely at one of the fuel cells if outfitting again. They are not ideal if cruising to remote places, because the fuel will be much more difficult to get than petrel/diesel. But if mostly cruising from relatively civilized harbors (I and include from UK to the Azores and back in that), and able to carry 5 or 10 gals, that would not be such a problem.

We have tried wind gens and don't find much value in them. And I had the blades shatter once (in the Canaries) which was quite dangerous.

Water gens are obviously not very valuable at anchor. The can be good at sea but you do need some boat speed to get them really cranking. And they are vulnerable to flotsam. And their mountings need to be very strong.

There are certainly lots of ways to skin this cat. And I would never suggest that our solution was the best one for everyone. For one thing, our boat is particularly unusually energy efficient. Using less energy is in my mind the single best 'solution' (for us) to most electrical system conundrums. In the end, after some few miles trying most of the possible solutions, we use solar for constant 'trickle charging', the twin alternators for when we need to motor anyway, and the honda otherwise.
 
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So there we have it Anusha.
Double battery capacity , buy ear muffs ,position genset on bathing platform , sail level and withdraw to the cabin .
Obviously works downwind in the Southern Ocean but not I think in the northern Atlantic beating for most of the outward passage.
Remember it is usual for a third or more of Azab boats to withdraw from the race because of poor weather / preparation .
Have fun and enjoy Azores I'm back to the Pacific where it is very possible to run a petrol genset on deck.
 
Mistroma said:
Surprised that someone said solar was very expensive. Perhaps he was talking about flexible panels sold for "marine" use. I've found rigid panels to be pretty cheap. I think I paid around £200 for 145W (65W + 2x40W) and average around 55-65Ah/day around Spanish Rias in mid-summer (from memory as I don't have my records with me).

Good plan to have redundancy, solar, water/wind, alternator/generator. Cost mounts up with multiple systems but I imagine solar would give the best return for money spent.
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It was me that said solar was expensive.

I sail exclusively in British / north-west European waters, where the output from a solar panel is much less than the numbers you cite for the rias. I reckoned I would need well over twice the panel capacity you use. And, yes, I was looking for semi-flexible (which seem to be more like £300 for a 100W panel), as I was concerned about storing the panels when not in use - since 300W of panels (over 2 m2) could not be permanently mounted - and I understand the rigid one are more fragile. But, I would be interested to hear where you could buy 145W of rigid panels for £200. I thought they were more like £200 per 100W.

My need for extra power production is very occasional. I am not fortunate to have multiple days at anchor, so the capital cost would be amortised over a small number of days' usage per annum.
 
Angele said:
That doesn't appear to include the cost of a regulator. So, all-in cost is a bit more...
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Yes the cost is more, plus wiring plus mounting, but that's not what you asked. If you don't want one then go another route. I agree with mistroma, plenty of eggs in different baskets for long term periods onboard off the grid. The other thing to factor in is battery life, very unlikely your batteries will ever get near a full charge just using the alternator or a Honda unless you run it all day, at least with solar now and again you can top up with the alternator first thing then have a chance of getting a full charge in from solar during the day.

I'm just getting by in se England onboard with 130W on a half sunny day with a fridge., lights and charging a tablet, radio etc. Cloudy day won't quite get there.
 
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One last question - is a Honda EU 10i (or similar, 1kW generator) adequate for ocassional / emergency battery charging or should I go for the EU 20i model ?
 
^^ the 1000 will be able to produce max 60 amps with an efficient charger (The sterling is very good), 45 amps with an inefficient charger. The 2000 will double that at max output. But, because of the decreasing charge curve, the 2000 will NOT be half the total charge time. The difference will be less than that (how much less will depend on your bank size and level of discharge).

I find the 1000 to be much easier to stow and to move around.

Only you can make the trade-off between amps vs size. But I would suggest the 1000 unless you have a particular consuming device that specifically needs the 2000 output to run.
 
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