Uses for Low Friction Rings

[Neeves]

Having felt technology was moving too fast for me and admitting, by initiating a thread on soft shackles (nothing to do with trying to be controversial), I also feel that LFRs have been introduced and accepted - and we do not use them.

So - many thanks to those that contributed (and continue to contribute) to application for soft shackles I wondered how many and for what reason members used LFRs.

I can think we could use them for barber hauling (but we have little blocks for that) and I have seen application for lazy jacks - but what imaginative uses have folks come up with?

And for the cynics (or cynic) out there - I have no intention of writing an article - if I did I would need to know far more about them - I'm looking to be educated (and hope others will enjoy similar elucidation).

Jonathan

 

[jiris]

I have no experience with them in sailing, but they were a big hit in paragliding for some time. With time some problems became emerging and the faded from fashion after a few years.

 

[Neeves]

I have no experience with them in sailing, but they were a big hit in paragliding for some time. With time some problems became emerging and the faded from fashion after a few years.

Interesting - I had always imagined they were a sailing' thing' (though know that arborists use them).

Can you elaborate - what were the problems.

They are 'simple' aluminium devices with a hard anodising coating. I don't know if the anodising is critical (to enhance their 'low friction' characteristics) but wonder how long the coating lasts - and what happens if or when it wears off.

Why aluminium and not, polished, stainless steel?

Jonathan

 

[lw395]

They have their uses.
We have a few of these directing control lines.
https://www.pinbax.com/index.asp?De...MIxfrvvOyO5QIViLbtCh2gngtBEAQYASABEgIK7vD_BwE
Sometimes its nice to have no sharp edges and no moving parts.
Other times a Harken block is best.

A lot of the friction is within the rope, when you start bending it around a tight radius. When you need a rope of more than 3mm, unless you're only deflecting it or guiding it, you'll probably get less friction with a block.
A few years ago, rings were a bling item and people tried using them where they're really not good.
AIUI, they're anodised with some ptfe in the surface. That does wear out, then they go rough if left wet with salt water.
Bending the rope around a sharp radius can also wear the rope.

 

[Neeves]

Thanks lw395:

I was thinking more of these:

https://www.allenbrothers.co.uk/range/?pid=cjlf6lozq009gd1v4anu632j0&cid=cjlf6kjpg0001c3v4ks3pm3xq

Which Allen call high load thimbles (and make in stainless steel) and also make as threaded inserts (to have in the deck or though a bulkhead). Though I was primarily thinking of the simple one piece devices.

Possibly I should have known about the Ronstan device - but had never seen it!

I cannot see the 2 part threaded devices being too popular if wear is an issue as I really don't see anyone one going round to dry them and they would be difficult to keep dry - if used for running rigging (maybe stainless would be better - though the thread versions don't seem to come in stainless).

I had this feeling, that I wanted to suppress, that they were a bling component (but then I thought the same of soft shackles, a fad) - so in both cases I was looking for illumination.

They do come in quite large sizes, suggesting they are for large diameter rope, but maybe the intention is to use as a guide not to alter, significantly, the direction of load.

Jonathan

 

[GHA]

Not used yet but jib and staysail tracks being removed for lfr. A cruising boat tends to get simpler over time and no blocks to hit with bare feet!

 

[jiris]

Interesting - I had always imagined they were a sailing' thing' (though know that arborists use them).

Can you elaborate - what were the problems.

They are 'simple' aluminium devices with a hard anodising coating. I don't know if the anodising is critical (to enhance their 'low friction' characteristics) but wonder how long the coating lasts - and what happens if or when it wears off.

Why aluminium and not, polished, stainless steel?

Jonathan

Some manufacturers started using the LFR for guiding control lines ("brakes") replacing small blocks originally made for the sailing applications. The LFRs used were ceramic and all looked rosy in the beginning. The problems emerged only after some period of use and it was partly caused by bending the line too sharply. Also, the system worked OK while new, but with time the lines collected some abrasive dirt and they started to cut - believe or not - thru the ceramics. Also some of the ring were prone to cracking without any apparent reason.

 

[lw395]

The thimbles are nice in some applications because they don't capsize like blocks do.
They're nice for a barber hauler because they will pull a sheet right down closer to the deck.
Personally, I just look at any system on a boat that doesn't work as well as it could, then ask what hardware might be better.
I have thimbles for adjusters in trapeze lines. Sheaveless blocks in some control line take-ups. I had some thimbles in a cascade kicker of a small keelboat, gone back to blocks for that. My spliced continuous control lines run better through blocks, which may be a comment on my splicing. The thimbles were OK, but no better than blocks. In that application.
Sometimes the weght matters, I'd rather be hit in the face with a 500kg swl thimble than a block of the same swl, in general!

There are some neat tricks with thimbles, running a take-up elastic through the same thimble the other way for example.
If you want a tackle that doesn't tangle when it goes slack they can be useful.

 

[Neeves]

There is a whole background and development that is a complete revelation.

Jonathan

 

[Roberto]

I use one for the 2nd reef line, tied to the boom with a giant soft shackle; it solved the problem of the rope chewing through the folded piece of sail.

sorry ugly photograph

 

[Poey50]

These are the two ends of a barber-hauling system for adjusting sheeting angle with non-towable genoa cars. The thick rubber surround is to stop the big ring from beating the window to death in the event that I forget to tension the system before rolling the genoa.

 

[thinwater]

High load, but not adjusted under load:
* Bobstay for folding bowsprit.
* Preventers.

Compact and light.
* Barberhaulers because there is less banging around
* Cunninham

I'd like to see a version pressed into reefing eyes on sails. Basically an improved grommet liner. Also dockline chocks with LFR properties and radius.

But blocks are better for many things.

 

[Roberto]

I'd like to see a version pressed into reefing eyes on sails. Basically an improved grommet liner. Also dockline chocks with LFR properties and radius..

there you go
https://shop.inorope.com/shop/croisiere-cotiere/anneau-faible-friction-a-visser-vmg/

 

[thinwater]

there you go
https://shop.inorope.com/shop/croisiere-cotiere/anneau-faible-friction-a-visser-vmg/

Yes, I'd seen that, but stupid expensive.

 

[noelex]

We use a few.

Simple, cheap, reliable; there is lot to like. They do have reasonably high friction so are best when this not issue. They are ideal for static rather than dynamic loads. When attached to soft a soft shackle version it produces a very short adjustable block.

We use them to feed our snubber, flag halyards, lazy jacks and barber haulers.

These photos might give you some ideas. These are my wife’s work. She developed the Bullseye weave shown. My rope skills are more in line with a granny knot .

 

[Daydream believer]

Couple in my backstay tensioning tackle. Also have them in the vang.

 

[thinwater]

We use a few.

Simple, cheap, reliable; there is lot to like. They do have reasonably high friction so are best when this not issue. They are ideal for static rather than dynamic loads. When attached to soft a soft shackle version it produces a very short adjustable block.

We use them to feed our snubber, flag halyards, lazy jacks and barber haulers.

These photos might give you some ideas. These are my wife’s work. She developed the Bullseye weave shown. My rope skills are more in line with a granny knot .

I can produce a square knot 3 out of 4 times!

Very cool, BTW.

The commercial ones are just seized in a corner with Dyneema cord and a string of half hitches, which works. You can also sew then in webbing or even pop them into pre-sewn climbing slings.

One of my favorite LFR applications is my bobstay. This would crush most ball bearing sheaves of reasonable size, and because it is not adjusted under load, a little friction does not matter.

http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2018/04/100-best-buys-chapter-19a.html

 

[gregcope]

We use a few.

Simple, cheap, reliable; there is lot to like. They do have reasonably high friction so are best when this not issue. They are ideal for static rather than dynamic loads. When attached to soft a soft shackle version it produces a very short adjustable block.

We use them to feed our snubber, flag halyards, lazy jacks and barber haulers.

These photos might give you some ideas. These are my wife’s work. She developed the Bullseye weave shown. My rope skills are more in line with a granny knot .

Noelex, your wife's work looks really good. My compliments. I love the Bullseye weave, not seen that done before, any links?

Minor, to me some of these look a little lose, have any fallen out?

Happy with the wichard rings?

 

[Neeves]

There is thus, maybe, a use for the threaded 2 part LFRs - if your reefing lines are thin and the exisiting reefing ring (in the sail) big enough. Our 3rd reef, which reduces sail area by 75%, so the line is long) is now 6mm dyneema with a bigger tail spliced on - it would work. We currently use small blocks.

I've been using thread LFRs (totally different application), both aluminium alloy and stainless steel, and Loctite (again) would secure the 2 halves.

Sorry - I answered Thin but had not see that Roberto had already come to the same conclusion.

I had mine specially made - much more cheaply. I thought I needed a specific size so had them made to my dimensions - I could have used off the shelf versions - but they were more expensive. I'm having some more made now in stainless. I'm not quite ready to define how I'm using them.

If you look at suppliers of climbing equipment there are a good few variants available.

LFRs themselves are expensive, if you use a lot.

Jonathan

 

[thinwater]

There is thus, maybe, a use for the threaded 2 part LFRs - if your reefing lines are thin and the exisiting reefing ring (in the sail) big enough. Our 3rd reef, which reduces sail area by 75%, so the line is long) is now 6mm dyneema with a bigger tail spliced on - it would work. We currently use small blocks.

I've been using thread LFRs (totally different application), both aluminium alloy and stainless steel, and Loctite (again) would secure the 2 halves.

Sorry - I answered Thin but had not see that Roberto had already come to the same conclusion.

I had mine specially made - much more cheaply. I thought I needed a specific size so had them made to my dimensions - I could have used off the shelf versions - but they were more expensive. I'm having some more made now in stainless. I'm not quite ready to define how I'm using them.

If you look at suppliers of climbing equipment there are a good few variants available.

LFRs themselves are expensive, if you use a lot.

Jonathan

You are right about thin line. I've taken to using Dyneema webbing on my cunningham for that reason and I like it, but I don't have to splice (it is tensioned by a hand billy hooked in a sewn loop--U can't leave line rigged because the main roller furls).