Used boat prices . . . . tell me I'm wrong

[steveeasy]

Not always the case: the boat I'm currently dwelling on was bought when owner retired in the mid 90's. He's now not able to sail and priced the boat at £3x,000. Problems being it needs new sails, new standing rigging, new running rigging, new batteries, new instruments, new calorifier, has a near 50 year old engine etc and that before the first sailing season which will undoubtably uncover more issues.

I like the boat, but to make it viable I recon the price needs to start with a 1 or a very low 2, not a 3 but wouldn't want to insult the owner over what was his pride an joy. I suspect other prospective buyers have thought the same as it's been on the hard & on the market for a number of years now....

Sounds like your just being savvy. Not everyone is, nor do some want to be. Some owners dont give diddly squatt how much they spend Vs realistic resale values. some do. Even when you find the right boat, we find good reason to keep spending for as long as we can. There seams no rational to it at all. The only thing that really you can count on is, that there is no such thing as any kind of cheap boat. I know that having bought what must have been the cheapest Twister ever and it had a new engine. Made little difference, I still spent an arm and leg on it.

Steveeasy

 

[PaulGS]

Thanks everyone! Lots of wisdom (i.e. bitter experience) on this forum. I suspect that, in the end, it'll be a love match and I'll overlook practicalities. I saw a 'family cruiser' with a very low hours 20hp beta a couple of months back (£7k) - should have been a no-brainer except that the interior reminded me of a VW caravanette I once owned; where's the romance in that?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Some things really have a calendar life span others not so much. Age of sails and rigging will usually reflect their true condition but with an engine it's running hours and servicing that count. You can't easily tell from a photo the condition of an engine nor from it's age.

My 2QM15 is 45 years old and in fine condition.

 

[Iliade]

I bought my current boat for about half the going rate, if the adverts are to be believed. However, I bought in the full knowledge that I would be spending that difference over the coming years to bring her up to the condition most owners would like.

Unfortunately, I ended up doing so much sailing that I have now all but worn out the genoa, which was pretty good four years ago...

One potential area of concern that I was comfortable with was the original 4.108 engine. It had seen some 1800 hours over the preceding 38 years and had been used fairly regularly. A service, injector service and clean out of the sludge-filled intake mushroom and she was running like a watch.

In my experience, lack of use is one of the biggest issues with marine engines; I would be happier with an old high hours motor than one that has sat idle. Likewise, don't necessarily be afraid of a little cosmetic external corrosion in a marine engine.

What I am finding slightly annoying is that the boom end casting is no longer available, so I'm probably going to have to get something fabricated if I cannot successfully re-weld the topping lift bracket (it snapped off leaving a sharp end.) This is likely to be an ongoing concern as parts reach their end of life.

 

[Stemar]

I like the boat, but to make it viable I recon the price needs to start with a 1 or a very low 2, not a 3 but wouldn't want to insult the owner over what was his pride an joy.

What I've done in the past is to say, "I like your boat, but I can only afford £X. I hope you can do better, but if you can't, get in touch."

 

[Cspirit]

For what it's worth, my take on all this - i.e buying an older boat needing work - is that you are effectively buying a hull and a mast. If the engine is recent, then that's a bonus, as are any recent electronics or kit. In my case, I'm about to launch my new-to-me boat after spending loads of money on an engine, new rigging, new instruments, berth cushions, rewiring, replumbing, etc. etc. There is no way that I could get my money back if I sold her tomorrow, but that is hardly the point. I hope that I now have a boat that suits my needs and one that I can sail without worrying about the condition of the seacocks or wiring or wether the engine will start. when I really, really need it.

 

[Adios]

As Wansworth said "join the club". I bought a boat cheapish thinking that with a make known for longevity I could easily and economically sort the engine out (Bukh). Well I was wrong and after 2 years just bought a new one. Its lovely but I am £7000 worse for the saga, and could have kept it below £5500 if I had not wasted effort mending the unmendable.

Incidentally, after 5 years a new engine adds little value to a boat. I do about 100hrs a year on engine (500 mile) and that includes running the length of the UK or going to Brittany and back so maybe 1000hr after 10 years not thousands.

So either buy a boat with a proven sound engine or budget for replacement possibly second hand from Marine Enterprises.

Oh and my apparently immaculate pristine condition sails blew out in the first strong blow as age had weakened them anyway- that was another £2500.


So check engine and inspect sails with suspicion and distrust.

would be a shame to find the weakness of both the engine and the sails at the same time.

Would it be UV breaking down the sails? What else could it be. I wonder how UV resistant the covers really are.

 

[Adios]

Not always the case: the boat I'm currently dwelling on was bought when owner retired in the mid 90's. He's now not able to sail and priced the boat at £3x,000. Problems being it needs new sails, new standing rigging, new running rigging, new batteries, new instruments, new calorifier, has a near 50 year old engine etc and that before the first sailing season which will undoubtably uncover more issues.

I like the boat, but to make it viable I recon the price needs to start with a 1 or a very low 2, not a 3 but wouldn't want to insult the owner over what was his pride an joy. I suspect other prospective buyers have thought the same as it's been on the hard & on the market for a number of years now....

You just explain it as you did in the first paragraph and show the working out on a piece of paper with some print outs of estimates to show you're not making it up. Seeing is believing. Then you let it sink in for a week or 2 and ask him if he's ready to sell or wants to keep paying storage while age decreases its value further. You won't be insulting him you'll be doing him a favour.

 

[Wansworth]

Not always the case: the boat I'm currently dwelling on was bought when owner retired in the mid 90's. He's now not able to sail and priced the boat at £3x,000. Problems being it needs new sails, new standing rigging, new running rigging, new batteries, new instruments, new calorifier, has a near 50 year old engine etc and that before the first sailing season which will undoubtably uncover more issues.

I like the boat, but to make it viable I recon the price needs to start with a 1 or a very low 2, not a 3 but wouldn't want to insult the owner over what was his pride an joy. I suspect other prospective buyers have thought the same as it's been on the hard & on the market for a number of years now....

An offer that you can honestly afford to make forvessel as you describe maybe what theowner wants,saving face,not having to give it away,maybe has a dominating wife who would say……told you so

 

[Adios]

Without wanting to be harsh, the market is what it is. Your seller may be a wise man or a fool but if you can't meet on a price, you have to move on.

Four years ago, when older boats were as cheap as they have ever been, people were posting that they were "overpriced" They carefully explain all the stuff they "had" to replace and one bloke actually said (I think he was serious as well) that he felt he should be paid to take on an old boat. He is probably still dreaming or taken up golf or something.

Fact is, boating is expensive and sellers will only chip away so far at their asset value in order to furnish a prospective owner with new stuff he feels he "must" have. Much of these shopping lists are, frankly, bloated or simply maintenance items; it harks back to the earlier point, boating is expensive.


On more practical note, diesel engines don't explode very often, they just get more and more difficult to deal with. A clean engine that reflects the condition of the rest of the boat and starts easily should do you for a good few years but do get an opinion from someone who knows as well.

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Taking a boat out for a decent pre-purchase sail would sort out a lot of what actually needs doing vs buyer claiming it needs doing, in effect "what would be a nice if it was newer so it will last a decade without needing doing". Selling a boat that's been sat on the hard for a few years with everything going green will always be to a buyers negotiating advantage.

 

[fisherman]

Owner's rose coloured specs!
I helped my bro sell his Laurent Giles 1963 42ft ketch. He had it valued for insurance in 04 or so for £58k. Engine rebuilt, he came back from 15 years cruising the med in 07 and was lifted out. For ten years he tinkered with it as it deteriorated and he lost sight of what it represented as a sale proposition, while chasing the value down, always asking a bit more than it was worth, and relying on out of date pics. By 2019 deck, mast, rigging, engine, superstructure, all worthless. Worth about £25k in 2007, sold for £4k in 2019. Cost him £45k in lost value and yard fees. The new owner is doing a substantial rebuild. He will have a splendid boat in not too long.

PS: the broker didn't fill in the 'length' box for the ad, so we could only find it in the 0-15ft section on the website. Might explain the lack of response.

 

[Zagato]

So far my sailing has been pretty much free. Choosing the right boat in the first place is the key as well as being able to haggle with balls of steel to buy and don,t drop in price when selling. Know your market for that particular boat.

First boat sold for £750 profit.
2nd boat £1000 profit.
3rd boat came out even. Blowing keels!
4th boat, asking was 33K bought for 23K from a well known company. He said he would get laughed out of the directors meeting if he mentioned my offer. I knew they needed cash for a buy out so it was accepted. Sold for 8K profit.
5th boat £1500 loss, damaged centre plate housing!
6th boat £4000 profit
7th boat, boat £3000 under price as nobody could be bothered to look at it on the IofW, keeping for a year or two.

This has covered any mantainence, mooring fees, transport costs, yard fees etc. I bought up together boats that are desirable with a following like Drascombes, Crabbers, Folkboats etc. Similar to cars when you sell. Just through photos you have hooked them before they have even seen it. Love doesn,t have a price. My boats are always beautifully presented, with good newish engine, sails etc etc.

Happy hunting.

 

[steveeasy]

You just explain it as you did in the first paragraph and show the working out on a piece of paper with some print outs of estimates to show you're not making it up. Seeing is believing. Then you let it sink in for a week or 2 and ask him if he's ready to sell or wants to keep paying storage while age decreases its value further. You won't be insulting him you'll be doing him a favour.

you might think by telling him the obvious is a favour. Sometimes I suspect that approach might have an adverse reaction. No point telling someone how to suck eggs.
Steveeasy

 

[Adios]

you might think by telling him the obvious is a favour. Sometimes I suspect that approach might have an adverse reaction. No point telling someone how to suck eggs.
Steveeasy

some people are easily offended and its not worth trying but it might be that he's just got his head in the sand and hasn't worked out how much everything would cost to fix and needs a little evidence to see with his own eyes. If its been on the hard for years he probably needs help understanding, or he's an arrogant fool and this would be a way to find out which.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I just wonder if all the people talking of overpriced boats and cost to them of replacing old gear would be saying the same if they were the seller.

 

[fisherman]

boats that are desirable with a following like Drascombes, Crabbers, Folkboats etc. Similar to cars when you sell. My boats are always beautifully presented, with good newish engine, sails etc etc.

My friend buys and sells boats, and has shifted a string of Orkneys. I just sold a boat similar to, but better than an Orkney, it took a while, and it was half the similar Orkney price.
The Crabbers and others from that stable are always pricey.

 

[dgadee]

So far my sailing has been pretty much free. Choosing the right boat in the first place is the key as well as being able to haggle with balls of steel to buy and don,t drop in price when selling. Know your market for that particular boat.

First boat sold for £750 profit.
2nd boat £1000 profit.
3rd boat came out even. Blowing keels!
4th boat, asking was 33K bought for 23K from a well known company. He said he would get laughed out of the directors meeting if he mentioned my offer. I knew they needed cash for a buy out so it was accepted. Sold for 8K profit.
5th boat £1500 loss, damaged centre plate housing!
6th boat £4000 profit
7th boat, boat £3000 under price as nobody could be bothered to look at it on the IofW, keeping for a year or two.

This has covered any mantainence, mooring fees, transport costs, yard fees etc. I bought up together boats that are desirable with a following like Drascombes, Crabbers, Folkboats etc. Similar to cars when you sell. Just through photos you have hooked them before they have even seen it. Love doesn,t have a price. My boats are always beautifully presented, with good newish engine, sails etc etc.

Happy hunting.

I know of one commercial seller who is the opposite of you. He doesn't like to sell. Has a yard with loads and a few in harbours around the coast. All going green. I heard he was working nights in order to support the yacht business.

I think he has a problem.

 

[Wansworth]

I have been looking for a small yacht and I recall being scorned by forum members for suggesting I was going to offer a low price,well looking at those boats still for sale with 50% reduction in asking price.Unfortunatly not in a position to make a purchase at the mo

 

[penfold]

If the offer doesn't make you feel embarrassed, it's not low enough.

 

[Laser310]

I've never understood the concept of being offended or angered by a low offer.

If it's really low, I might laugh.., but who really cares?

If it's something big, and I'm using an agent, i might say; "don't bring me offers below X", just to avoid wasting time responding.