USA yacht and CE Marking

[Seven Spades]

I am considering a purchase if a boat from the USA. It will need to be re-engined in order to become CE marked. I believe that it is cheapest for VAT purposes to land the boat in Spain and pay the VAT there, but if I do so will I be able to move the boat from there to the UK in order to get work done to get the boat through CE certification?

 

[Tranona]

It is a bit of a lottery where to pay VAT. Some will say the Azores is the best place as the valuations are low. However, if you have just purchased the boat VAT is likely to be based on the purchase price plus shipping. So, shipping to Spain and then onwards to UK does not seem a good idea and you may well find the extra costs exceed any potential savings in VAT.

Be careful with the post construction process as apart from the engine you will need the stability calculations and you may find this difficult to get depending on what data is available from the designer or whether the boat has been certified under the RCD in the past. There may well be other things that need changing as well as the engine.

Tom Cunliffe wrote up the process of importing and certifying his current boat in both YM and I think PBO. his boat was straightforward because it had a new EU compliant engine and was a well established design with all the calculations available from the designer.

 

[Seven Spades]

I know the work that needs doing it is just trying to get it done at the right price. A new engine will be required.

 

[jwilson]

Although it may put off a future buyer you don't have to get it CE certified for the "correct" - ie possibly Cat A "Ocean" rating. ANY certification will do - the requirements for Cat D (small calm pond) are much easier to comply with and meets legal requirements for any use in any UK waters, as it's not illegal to use bath toys in the sea.

However - one day however some interfering UK government may limit use of boats to their certified category of waters - effectively some Euro-countries have long since done so.

 

[npf1]

Note also that in Jan 2017 the RCD rules were updated and the process of going through a ‘post construction design assessment’ changed.

 

[Heckler]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

I am considering a purchase if a boat from the USA. It will need to be re-engined in order to become CE marked. I believe that it is cheapest for VAT purposes to land the boat in Spain and pay the VAT there, but if I do so will I be able to move the boat from there to the UK in order to get work done to get the boat through CE certification?

I ask the question, why bother?
When was anyone on here stopped and had their CE certification checked? Who would actually do it?
How many peeps actually checked their certification when purchasing their boats?
I know of several boats belonging to people that have pitched up in europe with boats, they didnt even pay vat let alone get ce certified! Nobody has checked them out!

 

[Tranona]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

I ask the question, why bother?
When was anyone on here stopped and had their CE certification checked? Who would actually do it?
How many peeps actually checked their certification when purchasing their boats?
I know of several boats belonging to people that have pitched up in europe with boats, they didnt even pay vat let alone get ce certified! Nobody has checked them out!

Depends entirely on your attitude to both the law and the risk of being caught. It is a criminal offence on both counts.

 

[Fossil]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

One has to wonder - why, with some truly excellent CE-compliant boats on sale in the UK and Europe at knockdown prices - is the OP wanting to put himself through all the costs and hassle of buying a boat in the US and then a new engine for use in Europe? Either the boat itself is so cheap that it is bound to be a shed and need a whole lot of other stuff doing, or there is some other reason. Just wonder what it might be...

 

[Tranona]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

One has to wonder - why, with some truly excellent CE-compliant boats on sale in the UK and Europe at knockdown prices - is the OP wanting to put himself through all the costs and hassle of buying a boat in the US and then a new engine for use in Europe? Either the boat itself is so cheap that it is bound to be a shed and need a whole lot of other stuff doing, or there is some other reason. Just wonder what it might be...

There are many very attractive boats in the US, particularly in the 40-50' size range "bluewater" type boats which are rarely seen in Europe - mostly built in the far east, although some US built. The market in the EU is small so few are built to the RCD, although most can meet the structural requirements. The stumbling block on earlier (pre 2000 roughly) boats is a non EU compliant engine. However these older boats are available at attractive prices even with today's poor exchange rate and not all are sheds (although many are!).

Whether it is worth trying to import depends on the individual boat and the importer's willingness to cope with the hassle.

 

[Seven Spades]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

We have quite specific requirements, we are looking for a blue water cruiser. We want a deck saloon and a centre cockpit, it must not be too old, it must hold 600l of fuel preferably it should have a generator, water-maker and washing machine, oh and it must fit my budget. The boat cannot be a slug so a Nauticat is out of the question, my wife is pretty much set against a really nice IP485. Once you have filtered by these requirements the number of boat is quite low. We made an offer on Truant of Sark (astonishing boat) last month but the seller accepted another offer, precipitously in my opinion, it was partly my fault for keeping my cards to close to my chest, who was to know that not being enthusiastic enough probably cost me the boat. As Tranona says the US market has many more blue water cruisers and the exchange rate is quite favourable at the moment.

I have spoken to CE Proof and it seems that the boat I am looking at is quite straight forward to get CE marked but does need an engine change to be compliant. However using shorepower in Europe with the differing electrical systems does not seem straight forward at all. For the Caribbean and Pacific it looks like the US system dominates until you get to Aus and New Zealand. I don't understand why someone like Mastervolt don't have a universal shore-power unit that will take any input voltage/frequency and output the boats preferred electrical supply. I am also surprised that there is not more discussion about this issue and how to over come it.

 

[npf1]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

However using shorepower in Europe with the differing electrical systems does not seem straight forward at all. For the Caribbean and Pacific it looks like the US system dominates until you get to Aus and New Zealand. I don't understand why someone like Mastervolt don't have a universal shore-power unit that will take any input voltage/frequency and output the boats preferred electrical supply. I am also surprised that there is not more discussion about this issue and how to over come it.

FWIW: My last boat was from the US and had both US 110V and US 220V shorepower (and three phase!). The differing electrical systems was a 'non issue' for me. I did buy a 5kw step down isolation transformer, but never fitted in in the 11 years I had the boat, as never found it was required. The only equipment that was likely to have had issues with the different frequency was the aircon, which I rarely used anyway and just ran the generator when I wanted to use it. I didn't use shorepower, as made the boat 'self sufficient', plus I bought kitchen gadgets, power tools etc from the USA. It would have been easy to rig a separate and simple UK shorepower system for those items that required 230V/50Hz.

 

[Seven Spades]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

Yes this one has 220V 50A 60hz. My thoughts were the same but it is nice to keep the battery topped up and make hot water when in a marina without running a genny and upsetting the neighbours.

 

[duncan99210]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

Sterling Pro-Charge range operate from 80-270v ac, 40-70hz, so for battery charging something like that would do. Link https://sterling-power.com/products/pro-charge-ultra.

 

[npf1]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

Change the element in the water heater to UK spec, the rig with a simple UK shorepower system just for that and a few sockets. Or, if poss, keep original element and add a second one, running on UK mains. Or consider the Hydonic Webasto route.

 

[Heckler]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

Depends entirely on your attitude to both the law and the risk of being caught. It is a criminal offence on both counts.

An American boat comes over, can stay in EU for 3 months then pop out and come back. Does the world end? Does the non compliant engine create fire and brimstone and flames! Stupid EU protectionism and finally we are getting out of it. So do I worry about stupid non compliantism? No! And as I habe said time after time, I have been sailing in the uk and europe for quite a few years, have I had my ce stuff checked? do I know anyone that has? NO.

 

[Tranona]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

An American boat comes over, can stay in EU for 3 months then pop out and come back. Does the world end? Does the non compliant engine create fire and brimstone and flames! Stupid EU protectionism and finally we are getting out of it. So do I worry about stupid non compliantism? No! And as I habe said time after time, I have been sailing in the uk and europe for quite a few years, have I had my ce stuff checked? do I know anyone that has? NO.

Bad day at the office! Not a lot of point in ranting about things you can do nothing about. It is just a fact of life that regulation has been on the increase for most of our lives. Just be grateful that in our particular hobby there is still a lot of freedom.

BTW your ranting has no impact on most others either. Life is too short.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

Isn't it the case that you can operate a non CE boat in EU waters but you cannot sell one.

 

[macd]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

An American boat comes over, can stay in EU for 3 months then pop out and come back.

18 months. And nothing to do with RCD.

 

[Resolution]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

Isn't it the case that you can operate a non CE boat in EU waters but you cannot sell one.

That was my understanding. My boat was built in the US and the dealer did a lot to get the EU paperwork right.

 

[Heckler]

Re: USA yacht and CE Marki

Bad day at the office! Not a lot of point in ranting about things you can do nothing about. It is just a fact of life that regulation has been on the increase for most of our lives. Just be grateful that in our particular hobby there is still a lot of freedom.

BTW your ranting has no impact on most others either. Life is too short.

Ranting? hmm, disagree and you call it ranting? Anyway you and I agree on one thing, wont be long before we are out of the sorry mess that has produced protectionism rubbish like this!