ds797
Member
What type of multihull Angus?
Cheers!
Cheers!
Upwind boat speed equals true wind speed
- Thread starter AngusMcDoon
- Start date
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
Dragonfly 35. It's not a bare stripped out speed machine. It's got carpet, dimmable mood lights, scatter cushions, pot plants...
Ok, maybe not the last one.
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Zing
Well-known member
Pretty good, but a high performance mono will do 8 kts at 25 degrees apparent in that wind. A carbon Italian stallion for example. The real test is how high can you point?View attachment 177214
Upwind at 30 degrees to apparent wind, boat speed equals true wind speed.
Stick that in your 'multihulls don't go upwind' bias and spill your mug of tea.
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
I'm not claiming to be able to equal a high performance carbon racing boat upwind because that would not be comparing like for like. A mono like that would be a cold bare stripped out uncomfortable pure racing machine needing a team of gorillas to get the best out of. My boat is definitely on the cruising end of the spectrum, more of a 3 hulled Halberg Rassey. I don't sail at 25° apparent because that requires a dedicated helm to do just that, so here the autopilot steers while I make tea, nibble Pringles, watch dolphins, hoover up Pringles crumbs, fix whatever has broken today & all the other things billy no mates single handed sailors have to do while sailing. In another thread recently a poster made the standard incorrect generalisation that multihulls do not sail upwind well. This was just a bit of fun to counter that.
This is what the interior of a Dragonfly looks like. Stick that up your carbon Italian stallion cabin & rattle around your cold damp uncomfortable cave.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
It’ll also need to be a fair bit bigger than 35ft to have a better VMG than Angus. Or us, there’s not a vast amount of performance difference. The 35 is just bigger, better equipped, inboard diesel and more plush. We do have a pot plant, or at least we do whenever we take a dyed in the wool traditional sailor out for a spin. Kevin Costner had one.
Zing
Well-known member
I wasn’t comparing to racers. What is like for like? There is no equal match in my view. Only a 60’ Rapido will match the top cruising monos upwind.
This is more what I had in mind. A Mylius 50. A ICE Yacht, similar and more plush, many others. Not a stripped out racer. No rattling in a damp cave. Racers perform even better. There are cruiser racers like Pogos, JPKs and J’s that can be very comfortable too. All go closer to the wind with higher VMGs than nearly all multihulls. Including yours, which as I admitted is pretty good.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Thing is, in practice they just don’t. Which is why the published NHC numbers, a performance derived handicap, says the Dragonfly is faster. Those monos have off wind performance claims too, so it’s not all about VMG to windward, they don’t need to ‘claw back time’ on the beat, they’re meant to be mega fast reaching and running too. The Dragonfly races on pretty much the same as a Pogo 40 and other fast 40 racers. Not 35s, but the same as a significantly larger boat.
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
I was not claiming I can sail to windward better than a 50' €1M monohull, or even a J109 - it's was just a fun counter to AntarcticPilot's generalisation that multihulls don't sail to windward. Some don't, and some do.
I can't sail at all today in any direction with 2 knots of wind
I can't sail at all today in any direction with 2 knots of wind
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
J109s are not that quick. Try it when you see one. The point is, there’s more hype about planing mono performance than multis these days. Sure, they can be fast. Cape 31s ate the commonest round my way. With the wind in just the right direction, and a nice 16kn, and a bunch of guys on the rail, they are nearly quick enough. A Dragonfly will match them with 2 crew and the berth cushions.
Stemar
Well-known member
To me, that's stripped out, but each to his own. As long as you've got half a million to buy a second hand Ikea boat.
https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats-for-sale/make-mylius/model-50----15.25-ars-una/
£491K, and that's after a price drop.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
I really like the interior, but surely thats not designed to be lived in at sea? How do you move about at 20 degrees of heel, and a very mild motion. And at half a million….sold, for a little under that I am told.
Dazcat 1295 'Slinky Malinki' for Sale - The Multihull Centre
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
It seems to have 2 coffee tables and nowhere to eat your scran from. Good for scattering a few lifestyle mags and parking your espresso I suppose. Do owners of this type of boat park up in a marina and eat out every evening?
Stemar
Well-known member
That's a very different beast. Modern interior, yes, but far more liveable.
And it won't spill your G&T just because there's a bit of a gust.
(No, I haven't forgotten Coco de Mer in the RTI, but I'm never likely to be trying that hard)
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Coco de Mer did the multihull world no favours. I have a photo of her just before. It was obvious she was being pushed beyond the point of reason. Flying a hull on a bridgedeck cat downwind in 30kn of wind…. It doesn’t feel like much til the boat slows a bit.That's a very different beast. Modern interior, yes, but far more liveable.
And it won't spill your G&T just because there's a bit of a gust.
(No, I haven't forgotten Coco de Mer in the RTI, but I'm never likely to be trying that hard)
Slinky Malinki did very well racing, but she is built to be a blue water cruiser, with suitable safety margins. About 10% quicker than a Dragonfly, and a lot more room in the fridge
flaming
Well-known member
If I think of all the times I have pushed the boat "beyond the point of reason" and the consequences I suffered... Or didn't....Coco de Mer did the multihull world no favours. I have a photo of her just before. It was obvious she was being pushed beyond the point of reason. Flying a hull on a bridgedeck cat downwind in 30kn of wind…. It doesn’t feel like much til the boat slows a bit.
Slinky Malinki did very well racing, but she is built to be a blue water cruiser, with suitable safety margins. About 10% quicker than a Dragonfly, and a lot more room in the fridge
It makes me pretty sure that a multihull is not for me.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
The difference in speed you get by pushing way too hard is pretty marginal on a multi, very often you’re just powering the lee bow deeper into the water. The temptation just isn’t so great, as well as the consequences being potentially worse. A little reef, in time, is the rule. You get better control too, if you’re hurtling in to the windward mark knowing a big bear away is going to happen. You’ll just go straight on, with a big rooster tail from the rudder in some conditions. Ease off, get the bows up, before the bear away.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
And this is well beyond my underwear change point.
That ain’t the way to have fun, as Tom Jones sang. To finish first, first you must finish.
That ain’t the way to have fun, as Tom Jones sang. To finish first, first you must finish.
flaming
Well-known member
Just thinking back to the 1st outing of this season. Just before this pic we were sailing in 15 knots under the blue sky off to the left.
Just after we were flat on our side as 30+ came through…
Consequences for pushing a bit hard and not dropping the kite were a slightly wet bowman and a bit of lost time…
Different strokes for different folks, but I’m definitely a mono kind of guy…
Zing
Well-known member
Go and saili an ultra lightweight cat in a bit of a sea. You bounce on every ripple. Jerky enough to spill your G&T.That's a very different beast. Modern interior, yes, but far more liveable.
And it won't spill your G&T just because there's a bit of a gust.
(No, I haven't forgotten Coco de Mer in the RTI, but I'm never likely to be trying that hard)
