Unmarked skin fittings - unlikely to be DZR or bronze ?

[West Coast]

My new-to-me Jeanneau 439 (built 2012) has a number of skin fittings circa 3/4" size. They seem OK, no external signs of corrosion and valves work freely. But checking through past posts, Jeanneau seem to be among some of the builders who did not fit bronze or DZR skin fittings. I decided to take a closer look today at the fittings to see what ID markings there were.

The valves only state the size and PN25 which I understand is only a pressure rating. No other marking. The elbow shows a manufacturer Wiega, size and DVGW which seems to be a gas pressure rating. So for both the valve and the elbow, no definitive evidence as to material.

Or am I missing something?

 

[Pye_End]

Did you have a survey done?

 

[MoodySabre]

Viega Marine copper-nickel alloy fittings have Lloyds approval for sea water use https://www.viega.us/en/products/innovations/viega-marine.html
Whether this is the re-assurance you need I couldn't say.

 

[West Coast]

Did you have a survey done?

Yes, asked the question of the surveyor. All he was able to say was the skin fittings appeared sound and showed no sign of degradation.

 

[West Coast]

Viega Marine copper-nickel alloy fittings have Lloyds approval for sea water use https://www.viega.us/en/products/innovations/viega-marine.html
Whether this is the re-assurance you need I couldn't say.

Thanks, checked their website. But fairly certain these are not CUNi fittings.

 

[macd]

It's no secret that Jeanneau routinely use ordinary brass fittings, and they're far from alone.
Are they plated? I've never encountered plated fittings which were other than plain brass. (And, more convincingly, neither has Vyv Cox, IIRC.)

 

[jwilson]

It's no secret that Jeanneau routinely use ordinary brass fittings, and they're far from alone.
Are they plated? I've never encountered plated fittings which were other than plain brass. (And, more convincingly, neither has Vyv Cox, IIRC.)

My 2004/5 Jeanneau came new with what appeared brass skin fittings, silvery-plated brass ball valve seacocks and plain brass hose tails. Replaced everything underwater a few years ago with bronze, also changed most piping. Although brass, the valves and skin fittings looked fairly solid pale yellow brass when I cut through them, with only a little pink in the outer layers of metal. Several of the hose tails however were all pink and actually almost crumbly: clearly a different brass, and a nasty accident waiting to happen as I don't shut seacocks every day. Glad I changed: from memory when the boat was about 8/9 years old.

I very much doubt Jeanneau have used anything more expensive since 2004/5, given the pressure to reduce costs. Even Hallberg-Rassys now apparently come with brass fittings. The RCD says brass is OK as it should last 5 years. My previous 1960s boat had the original Blakes bronze seacocks still perfectly sound.

 

[West Coast]

Thanks all.

The fittings are plated, and noted Vyv Cox's comment on his website.

So, decision made to change them, no brainer really.

 

[vyv_cox]

As Mac says, if they are plated they are almost certainly brass. If you replace with bronze ensure that the ball and stem are also bronze: many are only brass. DZR as sold by ASAP are the same metal throughout I believe.

Incidentally and surprisingly, HR have always fitted brass underwater fittings. They do not think this a problem that the conscientious owner cannot cope with.

 

[Malish]

jings, if that is true then the conscientious owner probably has them ripped out on delivery ;-)

 

[vyv_cox]

jings, if that is true then the conscientious owner probably has them ripped out on delivery ;-)

It certainly is true. During the YM seacocks campaign we exchanged several emails with the MD, who insisted that they had never known of a failure of the seacocks fitted to their boats. My argument was always that I was not surprised. If I found dezincification and changed the seacocks on a 5 - 10 year old boat I would not dream of informing the builder, although I suppose there are some who would.

 

[Plum]

My new-to-me Jeanneau 439 (built 2012) has a number of skin fittings circa 3/4" size. They seem OK, no external signs of corrosion and valves work freely. But checking through past posts, Jeanneau seem to be among some of the builders who did not fit bronze or DZR skin fittings. I decided to take a closer look today at the fittings to see what ID markings there were.

The valves only state the size and PN25 which I understand is only a pressure rating. No other marking. The elbow shows a manufacturer Wiega, size and DVGW which seems to be a gas pressure rating. So for both the valve and the elbow, no definitive evidence as to material.

Or am I missing something?

You can never be sure. I replaced all my skin fittings, ball-valves and hose tails 2 years ago and got the whole lot from ASAP Supplies marked as DZR and with stainless handles on the valves. This was after a hose tail fractured (severely weakened by dezinctification so was brass) and would have sunk the boat if i had not been on board (the seacock was closed!). I did not go for bronze parts as I could not find out what grade of bronze was used. Not all bronzes are good. I have previously taken out DZR parts from ASAP after 15 years and they were all good (I cut one in half and hit hard with a very big hammer) so now sleep well at night.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[West Coast]

Update - removed the 7 suspect skin fittings today, fortunately all came out without too much difficulty.

Certainly not bronze or DZR. Nothing crumbled or easily broken, but pink areas very evident on all the fittings in varying degrees.

 

[pvb]

It certainly is true. During the YM seacocks campaign we exchanged several emails with the MD, who insisted that they had never known of a failure of the seacocks fitted to their boats. My argument was always that I was not surprised. If I found dezincification and changed the seacocks on a 5 - 10 year old boat I would not dream of informing the builder, although I suppose there are some who would.

When I sold my old HR at approx 24 years old, the buyer's surveyor commented on several siezed seacocks (cockpit drains and galley drain). I arranged for them to be replaced, but the original ones (although siezed) were still very sound.

 

[vyv_cox]

When I sold my old HR at approx 24 years old, the buyer's surveyor commented on several siezed seacocks (cockpit drains and galley drain). I arranged for them to be replaced, but the original ones (although siezed) were still very sound.

One or two of the ball valve type seacocks on my Sadler may well be original (30 years plus), or were until 2016. I was suspecting a problem with the cooling of my engine although the valve seemed to be OK. Inspection revealed that although the handle was turning, the stem had dezincified and sheared, leaving the ball half closed. There did not seem to be heavy dezincification on any of the body, which was plated brass. The Guidi ones used by HR and others do seem to be of good quality, the small lead content may improve corrosion resistance.