Unloved Boats - end of the line

[seafarer2]

It's at Bowling Harbour.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling,_West_Dunbartonshire#/media/File:Bowling_Harbour.jpg

Also, for those in the south, a useful facility has been provided on the River Itchen either side of Northam Bridge where vessels of all types can be disposed of free of charge. The procedure is first remove anything of any value then tow the vessel with a RHIB or similar to a point outside the main channel when there is a good rise of tide and then anchor the vessel in position. It is best to knock a hole in the bottom, or just remove a skin fitting so the vessel slowly sinks. Escape with the RHIB to one of the conveniently placed slipways and job done.

 

[chrishscorp]

Is that red one on the right a Brent Swain rufty tufty reef proof thing?

I shouldnt think so, i punched a hole in the bottom of one with my slating hammer to let the rain water out, though she does sport some pronouced chines to her so i could be mistaken...

 

[JumbleDuck]

It's a funny wondering about worth. People buy land with a ruined house on it for say £100,000 and then build a new house around it with materials and labour massively exceeding that figure. At the end of the day they could just have bought a new house on a housing estate for much less.

Yeah, but have you seen the stuff they build on housing estates? Plus it's mainly timber framed constructions with a 40 - 50 year design life, so I look forward to hunkering down at home (200 year old stones walls) in due course and listen to the screams as the 80's ones start failing en masse. Then the 90's. Then ...

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Yeah, but have you seen the stuff they build on housing estates? Plus it's mainly timber framed constructions with a 40 - 50 year design life, so I look forward to hunkering down at home (200 year old stones walls) in due course and listen to the screams as the 80's ones start failing en masse. Then the 90's. Then ...

The point I am making, rather poorly, by comparing to houses, is that folks don't bat an eyelid at anyone who buys a plot with an old house on it and renovates it, or extends it (more common with cottages and cow barns and very old houses). Yet if a person buys and old boat and spends money doing it up, they are usually berated about how their money could have been spent more productively on say, a modern, second hand yacht.

My own house is a tad younger at 150 years old, has had money spent on it: kitchen, bathrooms, rewiring, some roof repairs, drains / gutters, ground work, windows etc. For the same money I have spent on the purchase of my home and renovations over the years, I could have bought a modern house with far lower running cost.

At the end of the day, low cost yachts that need work done on them are attractive options for people who want to to go sailing, if the money to renovate is spread out over some years and they DIY a lot. Sometimes I think this approach is looked down on these days, yet is should be applauded. To get back on track with the OP, I think many of these older GRP yachts will be recycled over the years by DIYers even though a newer yacht is currently very economical by comparison. In fact, I would go further, a lot of the interiors of some of these older yachts, say from the mid 1980s onwards, can be refitted very economically using common materials and not expensive marine materials - that is not a criticism of the build quality but a recognition of the standardisation of mass production. Many 25 year old boats are possibly here to stay for the long term.

 

[Stemar]

The big difference between houses and boats is that houses, generally, are an appreciating asset. Boats depreciate, and older boats have depreciated horrendously over the last few years - by half in the last 10 years or so. If I make an improvement to my house, I can expect to get at least some of the money back when I sell. If I do the same to my boat, the only benefit is what I get out of it. In financial terms, I'm throwing good money after bad. The Admiral and I have considered getting a slightly larger boat, but we've put so much money and effort into our present one to get her the way we like her and we know we'll need to do the same if we start again. Standing in a cold shower, tearing up £50 (allowing for inflation) notes, anyone?

 

[JumbleDuck]

The point I am making, rather poorly, by comparing to houses, is that folks don't bat an eyelid at anyone who buys a plot with an old house on it and renovates it, or extends it (more common with cottages and cow barns and very old houses). Yet if a person buys and old boat and spends money doing it up, they are usually berated about how their money could have been spent more productively on say, a modern, second hand yacht.

I know just what you mean. Sorry, I went off at a bit of a tangent.

My own house is a tad younger at 150 years old, has had money spent on it: kitchen, bathrooms, rewiring, some roof repairs, drains / gutters, ground work, windows etc. For the same money I have spent on the purchase of my home and renovations over the years, I could have bought a modern house with far lower running cost.

I am in the process of being there, doing that and getting the T-shirt. I also (I keep banging on about it, I know) have a Citroën DS which has cost me enough over the past two years to have bought a nice new BMW instead. But them if I'd done that I'd have ended up with a BMW ...

At the end of the day, low cost yachts that need work done on them are attractive options for people who want to to go sailing, if the money to renovate is spread out over some years and they DIY a lot.

Absolutely. I doubt many of them will ever get a full restoration done, but rolling repairs and refurbs should keep many going indefinitely and, as you say, pretty cheaply.

 

[doug748]

.. Boats depreciate, and older boats have depreciated horrendously over the last few years - by half in the last 10 years or so. If I make an improvement to my house, I can expect to get at least some of the money back when I sell. If I do the same to my boat, the only benefit is what I get out of it. In financial terms, I'm throwing good money after bad. ....?

There is no cheap way. If you buy a new, modest, boat the depreciation will be c5k pa for the first 10 years. Probably a couple of grand for the next ten - when the maintenance bills start to come in to compensate. You have to come up with a fair wedge to follow this route, probably a min 110k

Old boats start from such a modest base (particularly now) that the losses in real terms are quite small.

 

[Stemar]

There is no cheap way. If you buy a new, modest, boat the depreciation will be c5k pa for the first 10 years. Probably a couple of grand for the next ten - when the maintenance bills start to come in to compensate. You have to come up with a fair wedge to follow this route, probably a min 110kOld boats start from such a modest base (particularly now) that the losses in real terms are quite small.

True. Unfortunately, from a financial point of view, I bought Jissel 15 years ago, so paid they high prices of back then. A new engine would have been painful, but worth doing then. Now, it isn't, at least from a financial point of view.

 

[Cockaigne]

There is a fashion thing, maybe last decade, of taking old wooden yachts and restoring them into pristine condition, most are small up to 30' mark, very much a rich mans hobby.

Where an old wooden boat is considered worth preserving because it has historic interest, or is particularly attractive, a possible solution is shared ownership. This seems quite a common practice in France, and suits people who don't want, or can't afford, to own their own classic boat; with the responsibilities and expense that entails. The members of the syndicate get as much sailing as they want in return for spending some of their time helping maintain her and contributing money in the form of membership fees.

This seems a good idea to me.

 

[jac]

True. Unfortunately, from a financial point of view, I bought Jissel 15 years ago, so paid they high prices of back then. A new engine would have been painful, but worth doing then. Now, it isn't, at least from a financial point of view.

Nothing about boats makes financial sense. If it flys, floats …………..

 

[Stemar]

Like most aphorisms, that one's only partly true. If I'd chartered the amount of use we've had over the years, I'd have paid 10 times as much, even if I threw the boat away now. We've had Jissel 15 years, so depreciation is £300 pa. Maintenance, I'd estimate to be about the same, so call it £500, then mooring fees and maintenance about £250 a year. Over the years, we've used her more than 10 times a year, so that works out at £7 a trip!

 

[PHN]

A friend of mine who is now in his mid 70's owned together with his brother a Mahogany day sailor of about 25 foot, built in 1913. Inherited from their father who bought it before they were born. History is traced back to the first owner. Boat was unused in storage (inside) for the last 20 years or so. They asked me if I was interested. As I am in sea sailing I was not, but I found a historic yacht conservation group. One of the guys was interested and got the boat for the price of a bottle of wine (including sails and everything). The boat was not broken down or anything, just old, dried up and not used for a long time, but reasonably well preserved in storage. Now the son of the new owner expressed interest when his father - working on all kinds of restaurations - would eventuelly no longer be interested.

The price tag is 1 bottle of wine, many hours of DIY labour plus a manageable amount of money to spend on repair parts. Of course size matters when you are talking cost.

This story tells that it can be done and there are people out there interested in preserving older boats. However don't ask the question after the boat has already rotted away beyond a state of reasonable repair and don't expect substantial amounts of money to be made. Just be happy - like the above brothers - that the boat is not trashed and found a new life.

 

[oldgit]

Becoming a more obvious problem on the Medway. Heaps are bring ejected from boatyards, owners having skipped . Under cover of darkness boats being moored to bouys and just left to sink.. Within a mile of Rochester Bridge easy to spot everything from a fair sized sunken steel tug, 3 or 4 sunken motor cruisers plus a couple of small yachts abandoned. Wonder how many are hidden away in the many creeks ?

 

[steveeasy]

There is no cheap way. If you buy a new, modest, boat the depreciation will be c5k pa for the first 10 years. Probably a couple of grand for the next ten - when the maintenance bills start to come in to compensate. You have to come up with a fair wedge to follow this route, probably a min 110k

Old boats start from such a modest base (particularly now) that the losses in real terms are quite small.

Good points,
My current boat was bought for a modest amount(£3000) new engine and all there. spent £2000 on her and her resale value is?. she had no cockpit and needed a lot of time though. Models sell between 7,000-25,000. No point buying a wreck though.

Steveeasy

 

[fisherman]

Recycling GRP:
http://fiberline.com/news/miljoe/breakthrough-recycling-fibreglass-now-reality

Struck me that there are several hundred boats wrecked in the windies, plus houses to be rebuilt. Needs some joined up thinking.

I took a lot of pics in Brittany of the boneyards, bits of boats up muddy creeks, with the intention of making a tableau......'dunromin'? There was a subsantial ex french FV being 'done up' on the beach opposite Frenchman's creek, we used to watch the owner turn up every Sunday in his truck, drive along the beach, climb aboard and a few minutes later appear on the after deck with chair, paper and beer. "Just going to do some work on the boat dear"
Sadly we assume he died as the boat was towed up Ponsantuel creek near gweek and quite quickly collapsed.

 

[LadyInBed]

More for the chop



How to fit a 23ft boat into a 20ft skip



PS the boat in the foreground is also for disposal and is in a restorable condition (I've no commercial interest, just parked alongside!)

 

[scrambledegg]

Like most aphorisms, that one's only partly true. If I'd chartered the amount of use we've had over the years, I'd have paid 10 times as much, even if I threw the boat away now. We've had Jissel 15 years, so depreciation is £300 pa. Maintenance, I'd estimate to be about the same, so call it £500, then mooring fees and maintenance about £250 a year. Over the years, we've used her more than 10 times a year, so that works out at £7 a trip!

Slightly out. £70 a trip, but hey! who is actually counting?

 

[Stemar]

Slightly out. £70 a trip, but hey! who is actually counting?

Doh.... Two ways to look at that - One is owning a boat makes no financial sense, but then, we knew that. The other is, What sort of weekend - sometimes a couple of weeks away - for two could I get for £70? A few cheap pontoons like Ryde or Newport to pay as well, but more often, nights at anchor for next to nothing.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Like most aphorisms, that one's only partly true. If I'd chartered the amount of use we've had over the years, I'd have paid 10 times as much, even if I threw the boat away now. We've had Jissel 15 years, so depreciation is £300 pa. Maintenance, I'd estimate to be about the same, so call it £500, then mooring fees and maintenance about £250 a year. Over the years, we've used her more than 10 times a year, so that works out at £7 a trip!

not a bad way of looking at it , as we use our 365days a year , soon she be saving me money .

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Doh.... Two ways to look at that - One is owning a boat makes no financial sense, but then, we knew that. The other is, What sort of weekend - sometimes a couple of weeks away - for two could I get for £70? A few cheap pontoons like Ryde or Newport to pay as well, but more often, nights at anchor for next to nothing.

Sadly having misjudged and replaced engine sails and rigging 2 years ago and then decided I need to change boat I reckon I will have lost £12k over 8 years as my selling cant fully reflect the outlay.

However having our own portable accommodation is nice. Looking at sun rise over Lundy was a delight that tempered the early start, and later the Navigator looked at a cruise ship and asked "why on earth would you want to go on that - imagine the kind of people".

So between the two of us £1.5k a year is not a bad price for feeling our blood soar like old time explorers on new anchorages, and the comfort of mooring in places with ancient calm and magic. So back to work to pay for it all,