Unbraked Trailer and boat weighs 830kg not 750kg. 80kg to heavy.

[bremar]

After reading various posts on this subject that confirm that an unbraked trailer and boat should weigh no more than 750kg p I decided to take my 18ft trailer sailer to a public weighbridge. I stripped it out of all the bits and pieces but left the mast on as it's 26 1/2 feet long and represents how I have been trailering it. £10 later and I've discovered it all weighed in at 830kg. It's the original trailer made for the boat in the 80's. I tow with an Audi a6 Quattro so plenty of towing capacity but still illegal.
Does anyone have a view or experience on how particular the police are or insurance companies for 80kg? I don't really want to buy a braked trailer. Would it just be a warning or given that the combination( I think) looks reasonable ie not top heavy etc are they ever likely to stop me? Any guidance would be gratefully received
Thank you Bremar

 

[Giblets]

I would think that if you get pulled over you will get nicked for an illegal trailer and probably for no insurance as well. It's quite easy to spot an un-braked trailer if plod overtakes you.

If you have an accident involving the trailer I suspect your insurance will be null & void which means your car is un-insured and liable to be seized.

The fact that the trailer came with the boat is of no consequence.

Your choice!

 

[MoodySabre]

I'd be more concerned about the insurance. I don't suppose the mast weighs 80 kg so even putting that on roof bars won't help.

 

[ProDave]

I would look at upgrading the trailer which will mean new braked hubs and wheels, an overrun coupling and the bits to connect them. Everything else looks fine and it fits the boat, so I wouldn't be wanting to change the whole trailer.

See if you can find a local trailer engineer to give you a price to do that, or do it yourself if you feel competent.

I wouldn't worry about certifying anything, (it was always like that when I bought it gov, and it was made 30 years ago......)

Clearance from the mudguards looks tight so if it ends up with larger wheels you might need to raise the trailer a bit.

Or 80Kg of helium balloons in the cabin.

 

[andygc]

Once you've experienced the sensation of your trailer trying to overtake you, you'll be much happier to spend some money on making sure that the trailer will slow down when you brake.

 

[Lakesailor]

Insurance is the issue.
There are many forums featuring overweight loads and it seems that even commercial plated vehicles get away with a certain percentage of overweight loads before they get a prohibition notice.
80Kgs is a bit much perhaps and I can't see how you would manage to carry themast on roof bars. Masts are always a bit too long.
It's probably going to cost about £500 to convert to brakes.
You can often buy a caravan chassis for under £150. If you are handy enough you may be able to swap the axle and hitch to your trailer.
Fitting an ALKO axle may lift your trailer a couple of inches. Both the axle and the hitch are just bolt-on.

 

[GrahamM376]

I would look at upgrading the trailer which will mean new braked hubs and wheels, an overrun coupling and the bits to connect them. Everything else looks fine and it fits the boat, so I wouldn't be wanting to change the whole trailer.

See if you can find a local trailer engineer to give you a price to do that, or do it yourself if you feel competent..

+1

All the bits can be had from companies such as Indespension far cheaper than a new trailer, depending on your axle type, you may even be able to fit backplates and brakes to the existing.

 

[JumbleDuck]

If you have an accident involving the trailer I suspect your insurance will be null & void which means your car is un-insured and liable to be seized.
!

I think that's an urban myth. They can't withdraw the Road Traffic Act third party cover, which is all the insurance you need, although they may well refuse a claim on the comprehensive part of the policy.

 

[Seajet]

bremar,

it was put about a while ago that police around here - South Coast - would be making a particular target of towed boats ' as they've been getting away with it for too long '; which translates to me as ' easy points and better than dealing with nasty criminals '...

At the end of the M27 at Cadnam on the way to and from the New Forest, or going the other way, towards the Solent, there is a well known police trap where they haul over towed boats and caravans then escort them to a nearby weighbridge; I'd fit brakes if I were you, obviously safer for you and those around you too.

 

[ProDave]

+1 to buying or getting for free an old scrap caravan to donate it's wheels, braked hubs and overrun hitch to upgrade your existing trailer.

Another thought springs to mind if you get a decent caravan chassis (like the one Lakesailor posted a picture of, a modern galvanised Alko chassis) is to mount your existing trailer onto it and use the existing trailer as a demountable launch trolley.

 

[Lakesailor]

That is a thought, but the dimensions don't make it easy. The runners for the dolly wheels would not be in line with the sidemembers of the ALKO chassis. The ALKO chassis needs much reinforcement and it needs bolting on rather than welding which ALKO claim will weaken the existing design.
By the time you have done this the launch dolly (and boat) will be considerably higher when mounted on the trailer.
Add to that the fact that most 2 wheel caravan chassis are rated for up to 1300kgs (tyres being the limiting factor) and there will probably be Gross weight issues again.
The car trailer I built from an ALKO chassis ended up at about 300kgs.

 

[bremar]

Thank you everyone. Hmm plenty to think about. My engineering skills aren't bad. (The oil patches on the drive are from our series 2a Landy) but I'm not sure I fancy converting a caravan chassis. The wife is tolerant but doing that on the front drive is probably a no no. Options for are maybe index pension parts as it's an indispension setup with standard old 1inch bearings. Or maybe buy a second hand trailer. Looks as though I've got no real choice.
Thanks again chaps.

 

[Jim@sea]

I saw a boat on a trailer being loaded onto a Cross Channel Ferry which I knew weighed over 3000 kilos (New and without fuel, fenders and bits and pieces) and their trailer would have weighed at least 900 kilos. I assumed that as it was a Saturday Night Ferry when the boat docked at 7am on a Sunday morning even if any Police wanted to ask the driver to go to a weighbridge none would be open on a Sunday.
Whether you want to risk it is up to you.

 

[cryan]

I think that's an urban myth. They can't withdraw the Road Traffic Act third party cover, which is all the insurance you need, although they may well refuse a claim on the comprehensive part of the policy.

It happened to my cousin who was towing a car on a trailer. The trailer was appropriate but his licence was only for 750kg unbraked and he was done for not having the licence, then the insurance company said he had not been honest about use and withdrew it and he got done for that too. Six month ban due to previous points.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It happened to my cousin who was towing a car on a trailer. The trailer was appropriate but his licence was only for 750kg unbraked and he was done for not having the licence, then the insurance company said he had not been honest about use and withdrew it and he got done for that too. Six month ban due to previous points.

Thanks.

 

[duncanmack]

This thread has got the old grey matter going.
My googling skills aren't as good as they might be so I can't find the verification of this - someone else may?

When I were a lad, the unbraked trailer regs were for a trailer which weighed less than 200(?) lbs (?) unladen, and there was no mention that I recall on laden weight. When the new regs came out - due to European regs - it was amended to 750kg laden weight.
Trailers constructed before the change date were exempted from the new regs. Older trailers were in great demand as a result. I think it was in the mid 70's.

 

[bremar]

Not that it helps me but the trailer plate says date of manufacture 2/82, laden weight 143 kg and max load 687 kg If you add these last two together it gives 830kg. Which is exactly the weight measured on the weighbridge. Still illegal though.
Bremar

 

[Lakesailor]

Thank you everyone. Hmm plenty to think about. My engineering skills aren't bad. (The oil patches on the drive are from our series 2a Landy) but I'm not sure I fancy converting a caravan chassis.

Not suggesting you convert the chassis. You can unbolt the axle (8 bolts) and bolt in place of the indespension units. You just need some brackets making and for your trailer chassis rails to be narrow enough for the axle to fit.
The hitch is easier, although you may need to alter the drawbar a bit as it looks like a shallow angle between the two chassis rails.
The alternative is some indespension braked units (which seem to be about £270 for 1100Kg units plus a hitch with autoreverse which seem to be about £200.

There isn't really an easy option.

 

[William_H]

After reading various posts on this subject that confirm that an unbraked trailer and boat should weigh no more than 750kg p I decided to take my 18ft trailer sailer to a public weighbridge. I stripped it out of all the bits and pieces but left the mast on as it's 26 1/2 feet long and represents how I have been trailering it. £10 later and I've discovered it all weighed in at 830kg. It's the original trailer made for the boat in the 80's. I tow with an Audi a6 Quattro so plenty of towing capacity but still illegal.
Does anyone have a view or experience on how particular the police are or insurance companies for 80kg? I don't really want to buy a braked trailer. Would it just be a warning or given that the combination( I think) looks reasonable ie not top heavy etc are they ever likely to stop me? Any guidance would be gratefully received
Thank you Bremar

From your thumbnail your boat looks remarkably like mine. Although mine is Oz and 21ft. It is also somewhat heavier. The low slung trailer is really good for launching into shallow water. I presume like mine you have a vertically dropping keel and flush bottom when it is up. One trick you might consider is that if you fit an over ride hitch that this can be mounted under the draw bar so raising the front of the trailer ie boat is on a permanent slope back down so launches and retrieves easier in even more shallow water. I aslo slung the axle under the leaf springs to reduce height of the boat off the road. Very good for launching bad for painting antifouling on the hull.
Mine came 32 years ago with no brakes. For safety at the time I was towing longish distances through Melbourne I fitted brakes. The wheel and bearing assemblies were from a popular locally built cat front end. So it was easy to fit the drum brake backing plate and hydraulics. I fitted a hydraulic over ride hitch.
I did find with dunking in the salt water that the brake cylinders corroded quickly resulting in brakes jambed on and hot brakes on arrival at the launching place. I did fix this problem by replacing the ali pistons with nylon. The piston supports the rubber cup that makes the seal.
Anyway times have changed and I only tow about .5 km twice per year to and from swing mooring. So brakes have been removed (mostly by rust) but the hitch remains so it looks like it has brakes. So I take the riskon being pulled up. I drive very slowly.
Certainly there is a lot more confidence when driving at higher speed if you have trailer brakes. I would suggest you look at fitting brakes to your trailer. Hopefully not such a big job. I did mine with the boat on the trailer. I did find especially with brakes that I spent a lot of time at home servicing the bearings and brakes when keeping the boat at home. That is the price you pay for dunking the trailer. I would not consider a launching trolley however. I have never seen one around here where so many people dunk their trailer.
good luck olewill

 

[Seajet]

I must say I wouldn't fancy towing a boat that size on an unbraked trailer myself, legal or not.