Unbraked Trailer and boat weighs 830kg not 750kg. 80kg to heavy.

[bignick]

Sounds like you have determined the (il)legality of your trailer with load. The question is then how to make it legal most simply / cost effectively.

As others have said, if your wheels are mounted on indispension units then these can be unbolted and replaced with braked ones. The hitch can be similarly replaced. Shouldn't be a big job, but would be considerably easier if you could launch the boat first...

 

[bremar]

I've been towing for 40 years and although I've only recently got the 1980's boat and trailer shown I've towed it from dartmouth to the midlands and then later to Rutland water. With the audi Quattro it tows really well. It's very stable at least with that car combination. I also dive so have towed the club ribs on many occasions. Every year with the ribs it's a real pain sorting the brakes (let alone the bearings). Brake seizing being an occasional issue over the season. That's why I would have preferred to have been able to use an unbraked trailer and was one of the reasons I plumped for this lightweight(I thought) sailing boat (micro cupper). On its original trailer.
Have to say I've searched everywhere for duncanmacs observation above relating to old trailers but can only find one reference that said as a side reference "older plated trailers excerpted" otherwise everyone just quotes unbraked trailers max gross weight 750kg.
To summer isle the options appear to be
1. Tow late at night or Sundays when the weigh bridges are closed so police can't check weight
2. Tow and risk getting court - fixed penalty fine and 3 points???
3. Convert caravan chassis
4. Add indespension braked units, tow hitch and brake cable to existing trailer- actual trailer structure however might not be upto extra weight that I might be inclined to leave in boat eg anchors etc.
5. Buy second hand braked trailer. Not looking forward to all the maintenance.

It never dawned on me when buying this original combination of boat and trailer that there would be an issue. Silly me.
Thank you everyone for the suggestions. I don't like the idea but I think I need to buy another trailer. I do hate breaking up the originality of the combination though.
Bremar

 

[bremar]

Apologies for typing issues but I'm using an ipad and not proof reading quick enough to catch the auto changes it makes
Bremar

 

[oldharry]

Older trailers don't have to comply with current legislation concerning brakes, but AFAIK no current vehicle is permitted to tow over 750kg all up unless brakes are fitted. As Seajet says S Coast plod run regular campaigns to boost their crime figures, targeting anything being towed. They get a surprisingly high detection rate for faulty tires, brakes, and over or dangerous loading.

Insurance companies too will not be sympathetic and may easily refuse cover. Third party may still be covered, but you expensivecar and boat will not.

The fact the outfit runs perfectly safely is irrelevant. Cut off is 750kg. I used to happily tow 1400 KGS across Wales with my Xflow Mk 2 Cortina in the 70s on an unbraked trailer.

 

[Mandarin331]

I suggest make it legal, then you can tow her with all the gear inside, ready to launch and go sailing with minimal fuss, which is the whole point of a trailer sailer.

 

[Giblets]

Have a look at this document. It's pretty comprehensive regarding all things trailer related.

http://www.ntta.co.uk/downloads/SafeLegalTowingShort.pdf

 

[ProDave]

As you clearly launch with the trailer, I would still look at building or adapting a trailer that your present one can ride up onto. Then your present one can be the launch trailer and your road wheels on the "new" trailer never ever have to get wet.

you know your new trailer has to be rated to carry 880Kg (plus whatever you put in the boat) so aim for a 1 ton trailer?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Have a look at this document. It's pretty comprehensive regarding all things trailer related.

http://www.ntta.co.uk/downloads/SafeLegalTowingShort.pdf

Since that document - which has been cited before - is wrong about the maximum dimensions of trailers, I would be wary about relying on it for anything else.

 

[Giblets]

Since that document - which has been cited before - is wrong about the maximum dimensions of trailers, I would be wary about relying on it for anything else.

Fair comment. I was was not aware of any previous issues with the document. Care to elaborate where the document is wrong?

 

[bignick]

Max width is wrong. The document was published in 2000, when max width was 2.3m, commercial vehicles above 3.5t being permitted to tow up to 2.55m. Since then our laws have been changed to bring us into line with Europe, so all vehicles can tow trailers up to 2.55m wide.

Note that these are "trailer" max dimensions, not the "load", which the boat is.

 

[Giblets]

Cheers, bignick. :encouragement:

 

[rbmatthews]

I've been towing for 40 years and although I've only recently got the 1980's boat and trailer shown I've towed it from dartmouth to the midlands and then later to Rutland water. With the audi Quattro it tows really well. It's very stable at least with that car combination. I also dive so have towed the club ribs on many occasions. Every year with the ribs it's a real pain sorting the brakes (let alone the bearings). Brake seizing being an occasional issue over the season. That's why I would have preferred to have been able to use an unbraked trailer and was one of the reasons I plumped for this lightweight(I thought) sailing boat (micro cupper). Bremar

Braked trailers are not all that bad as long as you keep the hubs flushed regularly and the bearings well greased. Hubs with bearing savers are a good idea as they keep a positive pressure of grease inside (~3psi) which minimises salt water ingress. We have an Indespension Rollercoaster 7 which is regularly dunked in sea water several times every year - I only replaced the brakes and bearings last year after 7 years, and even then the bearings didn't really need to be. If you are interested, there is a description on our blog under Equipment|Trailer.

I would imagine a club boat trailer probably doesn't get the tlc that it should, hence the problems you mention, but if it is your own, I am sure it would be looked after.

There is also something very reassuring towing the boat down a steep hill and feeling the trailer brakes biting!

 

[VicS]

This thread has got the old grey matter going.
My googling skills aren't as good as they might be so I can't find the verification of this - someone else may?

When I were a lad, the unbraked trailer regs were for a trailer which weighed less than 200(?) lbs (?) unladen, and there was no mention that I recall on laden weight. When the new regs came out - due to European regs - it was amended to 750kg laden weight.
Trailers constructed before the change date were exempted from the new regs. Older trailers were in great demand as a result. I think it was in the mid 70's.

I have several editions of the Indespension Trailer Manual.

Reading from those and the NTTA website brakes appear to have become a requirement on trailers over 102 kg (2 cwt) unladen weight from 1 Jan 1968 ( certain exemptions, eg farm trailers)

New regs came into force on 1st Oct 1982 requiring all new trailers above 750kg ( 15cwt) gross to have brakes. Also unbraked trailers must not exceed half the kerbside weight of the towing car.

From 1 Oct 1986 the 750 kg rule has applied to earlier ( pre 1982) built trailers.

 

[Floyd Raser]

Just consider something else for a minute or two:

There is a reason for the 750kg limit. Just because it's perceived to be from Brussells shouldn't right it off as over active administration. Too many here seem to be concentrating on the legal aspect and not the physics/safety. Three quarters of a ton of trailer plus a fully loaded car - what are your car's brakes designed to be able to stop in an emergency? You could, and many have, get away with it for years; anything is safe if you go slow enough. At 850kg unbraked I wouldn't fancy your chances with a blow-out in one of the trailer tyres. The mass of the trailer has the ability to push the rear of the towing vehicle sideways if provoked.

The NTTA website has all the best info on towing, even if some of it is out of date; you can check the finer details with the dvla.

I have experience but cringe at seeing it written down. Get brakes please.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Max width is wrong. The document was published in 2000, when max width was 2.3m, commercial vehicles above 3.5t being permitted to tow up to 2.55m. Since then our laws have been changed to bring us into line with Europe, so all vehicles can tow trailers up to 2.55m wide.

They also fail to note that longer-than-normal trailers are legal when "specially built to carry a single indivisible load". Hence glider trailers, for example, and a trailer for a longish boat - a dragon boat, say, would come under that too. As I recall, there is a similar extension to permissible widths as well.

 

[VicS]

Just consider something else for a minute or two:

There is a reason for the 750kg limit. Just because it's perceived to be from Brussells shouldn't right it off as over active administration. Too many here seem to be concentrating on the legal aspect and not the physics/safety. Three quarters of a ton of trailer plus a fully loaded car - what are your car's brakes designed to be able to stop in an emergency? You could, and many have, get away with it for years; anything is safe if you go slow enough. At 850kg unbraked I wouldn't fancy your chances with a blow-out in one of the trailer tyres. The mass of the trailer has the ability to push the rear of the towing vehicle sideways if provoked.

The NTTA website has all the best info on towing, even if some of it is out of date; you can check the finer details with the dvla.

I have experience but cringe at seeing it written down. Get brakes please.

I agree brakes are essential

 

[JumbleDuck]

The car brakes are not an issue. The OP has an Audi Quattro... it is essentially a rally car and its brakes are designed to stop it from its top speed of 230 within the breadth of a sixpence.

Indeed, but the brakes are designed to do that with the normal weight distribution, not with the equivalent of eight adults in the boot. Citroën got this right with the DS, on which the brakes are increasingly biassed to the rear as the load on the rear suspension increases. Without that you can have the world's best brakes (and DS front brakes are superb) and still go all over the place when three quarters of a ton behind you decides it doesn't want to stop.

 

[Lakesailor]

I changed from an unbraked trailer to one with brakes for towing my last trials car (with a Grand Vitara).
It made quite a difference even at walking pace when coming down steep muddy or grassy inclines. There is little momentum in that situation then but even so the loaded trailer can take control, so the idea of having to stop in an emergency from 50 mph on a steep hill, perhaps in the rain is quite scary.
As suggested the trailer without brakes did tend to steer the Vitara on mud. However the braked trailer had it's own foibles as the wheels would lock and the trailer could start sliding sideways. Not something that would happen on the road.

But on the road, definitely a braked trailer. The slight jerk as the trailer brakes come on is very comforting.

BTW Someone on here (Little Star) had brakes converted from hydraulic by a trailer maker in Ulverston (nearby to here) last year for a very reasonable sum around £500 all-in. In this thread http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?366176-Brakes-on-a-road-trailer&p=4273788#post4273788

 

[Floyd Raser]

The car brakes are not an issue. The OP has an Audi Quattro... it is essentially a rally car and its brakes are designed to stop it from its top speed of 230 within the breadth of a sixpence.

That will give a false sense of security:

So the Quattro has fantastic brakes, but let's say it's not fully loaded. 850kg trailer - emergency stop. One trailer wheel hits a pothole during the slow down, jars the rear of the car to one side. Then you have to accelerate again to pull it straight, or at least stop braking.

As I suggested before, you could get away with it for years until you hit a pothole or other obstruction which puts the unit out of line. It's just not worth the risk.

 

[VicS]

Indeed, but the brakes are designed to do that with the normal weight distribution, not with the equivalent of eight adults in the boot. Citroën got this right with the DS, on which the brakes are increasingly biassed to the rear as the load on the rear suspension increases. Without that you can have the world's best brakes (and DS front brakes are superb) and still go all over the place when three quarters of a ton behind you decides it doesn't want to stop.

That will give a false sense of security:

So the Quattro has fantastic brakes, but let's say it's not fully loaded. 850kg trailer - emergency stop. One trailer wheel hits a pothole during the slow down, jars the rear of the car to one side. Then you have to accelerate again to pull it straight, or at least stop braking.

As I suggested before, you could get away with it for years until you hit a pothole or other obstruction which puts the unit out of line. It's just not worth the risk.

You both only quote my comments on the quattro brkes and twist it to imply that I was suggesting it will be fine to tow 850 kg on an unbraked tariler.

what are your day jobs? politicians ot gutter press journalists.?

Go back and read what i said abot brakes being seesntial


To make it easier for your standards of literacy I have deleted the comment about the quarrtro