Unbelievable 'rescue' numbers

[kgi]

Re: Unbelievable \'rescue\' numbers

Sometimes i think we ought to look at it from the other angle,yes the hq sucks and the senior management could be trimmed back, BUT just think how much this service would cost if it was run by the government.............now about the cost of running SAR helo's.............keith

 

[hlb]

Re: Unbelievable \'rescue\' numbers

Would have thought they could use some of the extra dosh to buy a few helicopters with crews. Could then expand and do a few road accidents and trips to hospitals as well as boating incidents. Often thought when in some places. It would take an awfull long time for a life boat to arrive from 40-50 miles away. Maybe three hours or more. All born out by a life boat man once telling me that there were only two sorts of incidents. One. Life boat arrives and everyone feels a bit foolish. Two. Life boat arrives and there all dead! Very few are actually rescued

No one can force me to come here-----------
----- I'm a Volunteer!!!

Haydn

 

[pvb]

Reserves...

Well, about £70 million is money which donors have specified how it should be used. Another £290 million or so is called "designated reserves" and includes assets and planned capital spending. That leaves the £148 million pot of money which is called "free reserves".

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Read the figures again!

Lifeboats cost a bloody sight moree than 500,000 I'm afraid, even without development costs, which are huge. It's not the crews that get the salaries, only normally one member, the mechanic, as its' a full time job, apart from the Humber boat, which does have a paid crew. The management may well get the pensions etc. But anyway, they can say whatever they want for me, I agree a lot of call outs are at the behest of the coastguard, who hate the fact that the RNLI is an independant body, they want to get there hands on it and always have! But I also agree wth the figures being used against us, it may be time to have a word with the RNLI, from the RYA maybe and try to clarify things, couldn't our magazines have a word, they are probably more akin with the yachting public than the RYA.

 

[oldgit]

Re: Read the figures again!

Approx 7000 call out div 365 days thats about 20 events round the whole coast each day seems fair to me.

lets go over there I am sure I saw a blue bit of sky

 

[rogerroger]

"awash with money"

Good. If only from a totally selfish perspective, should I ever need their services I'll be glad they could save my life or that of my family or friends as they weren't under-funded.

Typical British - someone, some organisation or even a charity in this case is succesful and what do some people do ? - slag them off and criticise.

When the brave RNLI crewmen turf out in the middle of the night not knowing whether they'll they'll even come back, I'm sure it aint about money...

/forums/images/icons/cool.gif Roger Holden /forums/images/icons/cool.gif
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.first-magnitude.co.uk>First Magnitude</A>

 

[SteveA]

Re: \"awash with money\"

I agree with you Roger but I also have to agree with some of the other threads that there is a question over the "top management" of this organisation - grass roots is incredible but there seems to be a lot of "hangers on".

I also question their use of finances - recently they have embarked on renewing some of the lifeboat sheds - the costs appear to be incredible, our local shed has just been replaced at at cost of 3.3 Million pounds and there is an argument that the lifeboat could have been left on a swinging mooring negateing the need for a shed at all but that would have meant that the tourist attraction would not be there.

I believe that a new lifeboat costs in the region of 1.5 millin which IS money well spent to ensure that very best for the crews.

I t is also worth remembering that many people with nothing to do with the sea support this tremendous organisation.

 

[rallyveteran]

Re: Read the figures again!

Quite agree with all sentiments expressed about the courage and commitment of lifeboat volunteers but if expenditure of £104m was spent on 6904 "emergencies" last year, that's £15,000 per 'emergency'.

£15k may be more than reasonable for a multivessel mid-channel rescue, but given that most 'emergencies' are for engine failure, drifting lilo's etc, this seems quite a lot.

I gather it's quite common for donations to be solicited from the feckless who have been rescued. I doubt if any of them thought to pay as much as £15k!

Rallyveteran

 

[kgi]

Re: Read the figures again!

We used to launch the sar helo for kids on inflatable thingums, and in 1980 that was thirty thou a shout, in the summer when things were busy we would launch on average three times a day, .....keith

 

[graham]

Re: Read the figures again!

PVB Would you prefer the RNLI was skint?As for the pensions of their full time staff ,do you begrudge them a decent pension?

Give the donating public some respect.The majority would realise that such a large organisation could never exist on volunteer s alone.

This seems a strange line of thought from a yachting forum who potentially have an awful lot to gain from a well funded highly proffesional rescue service ,ie the RNLI.

 

[jonjo]

Re: Unbelievable \'rescue\' numbers

> RN influence in the service is too much and it's beginning to become a RN
> retirement home!

Is that so bad? Read a book called "The Psychology of Military Incompetence" and you will be thankful the RNLBI is not managed by ex Army or RAF.

> But not swish offices

These are probably to accommodate the new Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome Counselling Department ;-)

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Unbelievable \'rescue\' numbers

Had a lot to do with RN officers have you? Great in the RN, I'm sure, but not in the RNLI. IMHO. FWIW, etc. etc.

 

[AndrewB]

No, its not strange we are concerned ...

... because although we have much to gain from a top quality rescue service, there must be very real concerns that the statistics on leisure vessels are providing the ammunition for a whole raft of restrictive legislation that is waiting in the wings. (See Deckmaster's response to Jimi). The UK is about the only country left where there is anything like 'freedom of the seas' for yachts, and many of us value this, almost above having the level of safety cover the RNLI is prepared to provide.

What I'm not clear about though is whether the high statistics occur because lifeboats offer help in situations that are really quite unlikely to turn into emergencies, or whether today's breed of yachtsman simply expects outside assistance whenever things don't go to plan. After all, there are few alternative sources of help, outside the Solent.

We could start to argue again about whether the RNLI should charge to recover property (i.e. tow-ins. Lives of course must always be saved as a free duty). And if so whether that would result in a far greater reduction in the number of shouts to leisure vessels, than any compulsory training scheme or safety legislation.

 

[pvb]

No, we really have an awful lot to lose...

You forget that this thread is about the veracity of the statistics issued by the RNLI. As yachtsmen, we actually have an awful lot to lose as a result of the RNLI's dubious statistics. We stand to lose our freedom. Leisure yachting is one of the last great freedoms open to us - an unlicensed, largely unregulated activity which we are free to enjoy without official intervention.

But the days of this freedom are numbered, as the forces of officialdom look at ways of controlling us, in the name of safety. Now yachting in the UK is a very safe activity, with extremely low rates of fatality. Of course, even one death is tragic but, in the context of the numbers of pleasure boats in the UK, the handful of deaths per year is statistically very very low.

If the state is to intervene in the name of safety, it needs to prove a case that boating is dangerous. Enter the RNLI, who similarly need to demonstrate the same case to justify their massive fundraising operation (which cost them over £20 million last year). According to the RNLI, they "rescued" 6922 people last year, and over half of their services were to "pleasure craft". Viewed in the light of their "Saving lives at sea" slogan, many members of the general public would assume that these 6922 rescued people were in imminent danger of losing their lives. These are just the sort of numbers which the state needs the public to believe.

Personally, I doubt very much whether many of the people who are "rescued" each year by the RNLI are ever in much danger in the first place. As other posters have mentioned, a lot of RNLI "rescues" seem to be less than dramatic. Indeed, the RNLI confess that only 154 launches in 2001 were carried out in winds of Force 7+. And did you know that lifeboats spend, on average, only half an hour at sea each week?

My concern, therefore, is that by exaggerating the dangers, the RNLI is acting against the long-term interests of yachtsmen in the UK. I unreservedly admire the dedication and courage of the men and women who crew the lifeboats, but I think the management and administration functions (as with many large charities) are less admirable.

The RNLI has been criticised in the past for its large reserves of cash. It seems a shame that a lot of little old ladies are dipping into their meagre savings to donate to such a wealthy organisation, on the basis of its fundraising publicity. And it will be an equal shame if we lose our yachting freedom on the same basis.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: No, its not strange we are concerned ...

I believe, if your vessel is in no danger and you accept a tow from the lifeboat, you should pay for it, just as you would a tow truck on the road, be it, RAC etc, or private. It may as some have already saidreduce the number of call outs and reduce these rescue statistics. Also, if the coastguard did not off their own backs, call out the boat, when it isn't really needed, this would also reduce the statistics.
I still say they do not have massive reserves, when you consider the cost of a new boat and the cost of running the service, also remember most of their money comes from legacies, not the box. So being cynical about taking the money off little old ladies, who can barely afford it, is a bit churlish! IMHO, FWIW etc.

 

[NigeCh]

Re: Unbelievable thread

I got rescued by Selsey lifeboat on 22 August 14 miles SSW of the Nab Tower when we got a cut away drift net wrapped round the prop and external shaft en route from Lelystad (Holland) to Puerto de Benalmadena (Med) on a USA flagged yacht. We spent 2 1/2 hours diving overboard trying to cut it free without much success and as twilight was arriving we informed Solent Coastguard that we were windless and drifting at 1.2 knots into the main shipping lane into Southampton .....

I don't care what any other poster has already said on this thread. The GC announced that they had invited Selsey Lifeboat to be launched and after being hauled in were placed on a swinging mooring in the fairway off Sparkes Yacht Harbour.

It was a FREE service. The USA Captain and Owner could not believe that even post event that the RNLI is a charity and that no towing dues had been asked for. BUT was it free?

We all need to ask ourselves the free lunch question and then re-ask ourselves whether the RNLI is a free service. If we had been off France or off the USA what would the cost have been? What would the towing cost have been off any other country?

I don't give a stuff what the RNLI has either in 'free reserves' or even as 'assets'. As far as I'm concerned the RNLI is unique and can, being part business (fund raising) and part volunteer (Lifeboat crew) remain, per se, for as long as it wants.

I don't give monies to things like the Canine Defence League, or to Pony Club Rest Homes or to 'Save the Cat Fund' ... or anything else like that, I've always supported the RNLI.

The RNLI is unique, and unless somebody can come up with a different and better RNLI then I suggest that we each and all of us donate another £10 to the next box or better still join RNLI offshore so that the RNLI can continue as it is. If I lived next the sea than I would quite happily volunteer to be part of any RNLI crew.

It's easy to knock. It's humiliating to having to be rescued and become another statistic. I'm glad that I was saved by the RNLI - I'm glad for each and everyone who put their sea-pennies where their mouth is.

If you want to knock then please come up with a better idea - Until then, thank God that we do have the RNLI and continue to put your pennies where they are volunteer doing.

Sincerely,

NigeCh

 

[AndrewB]

Sorry, but this is totally unconvincing.

You didn't NEED your lives saved, what you needed was a decent tow - or maybe a decent propshaft rope-cutter.

I'm an Offshore member and always have been, and put a good bit in the tin besides. If its helped provide one lifejacket to one crew member who has assisted in saving one life, its been worth every penny.

But I deeply resent any of this going to your commercial delivery skipper simply so he could hit his tight targets. It should rightly have been an insurance matter for him and the owner, as it would be anywhere else in the world.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Sorry, but this is totally unconvincing.

They were drifting into the shipping lane, but it was still a matter for a tow, not the lifeboat, I agree!

 

[JeremyF]

Well paid top jobs

See today's Sunday Times. RNLI Director of fundraising and corporate affairs - £70k.

Seems Poole HQ needs to attract the best

<font color=blue>Jeremy Flynn/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif
Dawn Chorus</font color=blue>

 

[pvb]

Do try to keep up, Nigel

This thread is about dubious RNLI publicity claims. No-one has suggested for a moment that the service isn't exceptional. Indeed, in many cases, such as yours, it's over the top. But if the RNLI continues to represent every trip to any temporarily disabled boat as a "rescue", we'll all end up with compulsory licensing, testing, certification, etc.