Ultra sonic anti fouling

[ST840]

Hello,
Anybody got any experience of ultra sonic anti foul kits ?? do they work and if so what's the best one? I own an s28 if that's relevant.
Cheers

 

[Ripster]

I think the overall veiw on here is that they have limited effect (UK waters) and you still need anti-foul paint. It has been discussed on here many times (worth doing a thread search) and to date on-one has come up with much proof that they actually work and can replace conventional methods.

 

[jfm]

I fitted them x2 to squadron 58 in Med, in 2009. imho they are useless and a waste of time+money. Just use micron 77 paint

 

[Nigelpickin]

I've never heard of anyone being able to demonstrate that ultrasonic works; if it did I guess that the dealers/manafacturers would back up with some sort of guarantee. Snake oil imo.

 

[Tranona]

Independent test in PBO last year found little evidence that it was effective compared with the control conventional AF in the same location.

Confirms the experiences of those who have tried it and reported here.

 

[aquatom]

Just phone one of the manufacturera Of these products and así them if it works. They never give a straight answer, just refer you to some artical in a magazine that says it defiantly sort of dose something ish kind of! If they said yes and they will give you your money back if you were not happy then go for it.

 

[Montemar]

I think the overall veiw on here is that they have limited effect (UK waters) and you still need anti-foul paint. It has been discussed on here many times (worth doing a thread search) and to date on-one has come up with much proof that they actually work and can replace conventional methods.

I agree with the above. I fitted it to a S23 and perhaps it reduced hull growth, did not get barnacles or more substantial things. It did nothing for the props as they are acoustically isolated from the hull so the ultrasonic vibes do not reach them. I found the props got very fouled unlike the hull.
Overall I would say marginal improvement.
I built a system from an Australian design. If you cannot find information on it I will dig it out.

 

[cmsmarine]

Just phone one of the manufacturera Of these products and así them if it works. They never give a straight answer, just refer you to some artical in a magazine that says it defiantly sort of dose something ish kind of! If they said yes and they will give you your money back if you were not happy then go for it.

Being very carful how I word this as don't want to kicked for advertising but I would urge you to check all UK manufacturers of this technology as you may just find some DO offer a Money Back Guarantee.
If you need any advise on this topic please feel free to contact us.

Thanks
Sam

 

[Elessar]

Being very carful how I word this as don't want to kicked for advertising but I would urge you to check all UK manufacturers of this technology as you may just find some DO offer a Money Back Guarantee.
If you need any advise on this topic please feel free to contact us.

Thanks
Sam

intriguing - i take it you make or sell one? It is generally accepted you can put a link in your sig and reply to Qs that inform rather than overtly advertising.

I would be interested in your warrantee claims if you are involved.

ps I used to have an anti foul business and installed a few ultrasonics, and have one myself. I stopped selling them........

 

[Hurricane]

Being very carful how I word this as don't want to kicked for advertising but I would urge you to check all UK manufacturers of this technology as you may just find some DO offer a Money Back Guarantee.
If you need any advise on this topic please feel free to contact us.

Thanks
Sam

For us Med guys, it isn't antifoul paint that is our problem.
Virtually all antifoul paints work for us.
Our huge problem is finding a system that will protect our props and other underwater metalwork from barnacle growth.
It would be great if something like an ultrasonic system would work.
Sadly, IMHO, ultrasonic systems don't provide that kind of protection - indeed, I believe that they don't even provide as good a protection as antifoul paint.
And if you still need antifoul paint, why would you ever fit ultrasonics?
Sorry - but I believe that you are "flogging a dead horse"

 

[cmsmarine]

Hurricane,

Thanks for the comments. Ultrasonics require a solid material to transfer the frequencies and so rudders / props and outdrives need careful consideration when planning the transducers. We advise locating transducers close to peripherals to ensure maximum cleaning potential. For example on a Motor Boat with LWL <10M we supply 2 transducers and both would be located close the P-Brackets, if the boat is >10M LWL we than supply an additional transducer located close to the Bow thruster. With this arrangement and the correct power you will get good results on your props. I have taken the liberty to insert a photo below of a Princess P56 berthed in Lymington showing the type of protection that can be achieved on Props / rudders. The growth you see is on the bathing platform and demonstrates the amount of "growth" in the water.

To be clear on our recommendations regarding antifoul paint. No Antifoul paint is required as this function is performed by the Ultrasonics. It is recommended that a Hard epoxy based paint or hard motor boat paint is applied as this will give the hull a good look and give some protection against osmosis/physical damage.

New boats installing a SonicShield will usually have Gel Shield or similar applied.

Please feel free to ask any further questions

Thanks

Sam
www.ultrasonicantifoulingworks.co.uk

For us Med guys, it isn't antifoul paint that is our problem.
Virtually all antifoul paints work for us.
Our huge problem is finding a system that will protect our props and other underwater metalwork from barnacle growth.
It would be great if something like an ultrasonic system would work.
Sadly, IMHO, ultrasonic systems don't provide that kind of protection - indeed, I believe that they don't even provide as good a protection as antifoul paint.
And if you still need antifoul paint, why would you ever fit ultrasonics?
Sorry - but I believe that you are "flogging a dead horse"

 

[cmsmarine]

Elessar,

We do indeed manufacture a system in the UK and have been doing so for nearly 6 years

As an electronic development company with over 32 years experience we have made some major improvements to the way the transducers are powered and mounted to the hull.

We recognise the single biggest worry of our potential customers is the efficiency of the system. Every owner will have his/her own fouling concerns and although current customer testimonial help it is how it will perform on his/her boat in their own waters with their own usage.

We believe in our product and allow the customers the ability to 'Try' a system on their own boat for 6 Months. It is a Money Back satisfaction guarantee and not an efficiency based one.

If after 6 Months the customer is not satisfied with results they simply return the unit to us (No Through Hull drilling is required) for a refund. The only cost is a £75 trail fee to cover the costs of the consumables that can not be reused. Everything required to install the system is included within the package including glue, gloves, mixing sticks etc.

A 2 Year Manufacturers warranty direct with us in the Uk is supplied as standard.

If you would like more details please PM your contact info and I will email it over.

Cheers

Sam
CMS Marine
www.ultrasonicantifoulingworks.co.uk

 

[Bazzer]

I fitted them x2 to squadron 58 in Med, in 2009. imho they are useless and a waste of time+money. Just use micron 77 paint

+1

 

[MYAG]

For us Med guys, it isn't antifoul paint that is our problem.
Virtually all antifoul paints work for us.
Our huge problem is finding a system that will protect our props and other underwater metalwork from barnacle growth.
It would be great if something like an ultrasonic system would work.
Sadly, IMHO, ultrasonic systems don't provide that kind of protection - indeed, I believe that they don't even provide as good a protection as antifoul paint.
And if you still need antifoul paint, why would you ever fit ultrasonics?
Sorry - but I believe that you are "flogging a dead horse"

+1. Here's a photo taken yesterday, the antifouling is Micron 77 and it was applied 2yrs ago in May 2013. It works astonishingly well just as the manufacturers (International Paints) claim so as Hurricane says this isn't our problem but the metalwork is.

We dive regularly to inspect and clean the metalwork as much as every 2 weeks during the season to keep the fouling at almost zero. The photo shows the level of fouling after just 4 months without any cleaning dives. I've never seen an ultrasonic system work despite all the hype I've read, money back guarantees based on satisfaction rather than efficiency sez it all really! It either works or it doesn't. IMHO it doesn't.

 

[cmsmarine]

JFM,

Can you advise which system you had on your Squadron please? Not all ultrasonic systems are the same and most people so far have made reference to a self built Australian Jay Car system which is vastly inferior to the UK designed and built systems.

Glad to hear the Micron 77 is doing the job for you. Long may it last

Sam
Cms Marine

I fitted them x2 to squadron 58 in Med, in 2009. imho they are useless and a waste of time+money. Just use micron 77 paint

 

[longjohnsilver]

Sam, you need to look at your home page again. Part of the owners comments section is cut off.

It seems that the company was only started last year? If so, how can we be sure that you will be around to honour any guarantee/warranty? Sorry to be negative, but for many on here the product you are selling is considered to be snake oil, so you have a potential uphill battle on your hands!

 

[jrudge]

It seems to me that the science says this will work, but that in practice for whatever reason it does not.

This has been debated many times on here and I don't recall any poster saying "yes this works" in the same way that the testimonials on the web sites of the vendors do. On of the magazines came to the same conclusion I think.

I suspect that if you can get enough power into the hull to get it in effect "resonating" this may work, but this has alluded people in the real world given a hull of a boat is large an heavy and you are seeking to get enough vibration going to kill eggs ( As I recall).

The system sold with the money back gtee is some £1500 for a boat my size, and the effort of fitting transducers down the length of the hull would be reasonably significant. There is the prospect of a money back gtee, but by that time you have installed, un installed and sent it back that is quite a lot of effort for a concept that has never really been proven to work.

If the company were feeling brave then it could offer to install the system on a forumites boat FOC as a public forum test. I would love to volunteer, but given I am in Mallorca this is not very practical from their point of view. It would also need to be someone who has a history of keeping a boat in a particular place and knows the level of fouling they usually get. However given "No Antifoul paint is required as this function is performed by the Ultrasonics" I suspect this would be treated with huge suspicion by anyone, but it would of course be a pretty good test.

This group is self segmenting, it is interested in boats, it is in the main pretty knowledgeable and no one on here thinks it works. If a manufactures could convince the forum that it did I suspect they could sell a lot of it!

So are CMS marine up for the challenge? The kit will cost them far less than retail and if it works they will sell an awful lot of it. Of course if it doesn't they won't, but this group is not really at the front of the buying queue in any event!

 

[cmsmarine]

Hi Long John,

CMS MARINE is the trading name of COTSWOLD MICROSYSTEMS LTD. COTSWOLD MICROSYSTEMS LTD is a registered company in England and Wales under company number 1625178 and our registered offices are 4 St Albans Road, Gloucester, GL2 5FW. Our VAT number is 484603631.

We were established in 1982 and have published accounts for the last 33 years freely available on companies house.

Ultrasonicantifoulingwork.co.uk website was set up last year as a website to sell the product in the UK. cmsmarine.co.uk is under development as we provide ultrasonic cleaning and antifouling for many industries.

I trust this answers your question. We have been in business for a long time and so one could argue we have done something right

Sam, you need to look at your home page again. Part of the owners comments section is cut off.

It seems that the company was only started last year? If so, how can we be sure that you will be around to honour any guarantee/warranty? Sorry to be negative, but for many on here the product you are selling is considered to be snake oil, so you have a potential uphill battle on your hands!

 

[annageek]

This is not something that I tend to get involved with (the joys of dry stacking!) but one thing that strikes me as crazy is this (correct me if I am wrong - as the evidence may exist - I've just never seen it):

Could an ultrasonic AF system manufacturer not get two identical hulls (needn't be big, just identical), one fitted with ultrasonic AF, one without, and leave them in two adjacent marina berths for a season. It's not a prohibitively expensive test, in my opinion. The results would surely speak for themselves. The experiment could be improved by a third hull painted in a popular AF paint.

To me, the absence of the data means one of four things.

1. The experiment has been completed by an ultrasonic AF manufacturer, but the results proved the system to be ineffective/only marginally effective.

2. The experiment hasn't been completed by an ultrasonic AF manufacturer as there was little confidence the (fairly modest) financial outlay of the experiment would give a favourable result.

3. The experiment has been completed, but lacks credibility due to the introduction of experimental bias as a result of, say, the involvement of, or association with an ultrasonic AF manufacturer in the undertaking of the experiment.

4. The experiment has taken place, but I am unaware of it and the debate as to whether ultrasonic AF systems work or not inexplicably crops up week after week despite there being evidence to prove/disprove the effectiveness of such a system.

As an aside, I head on the radio the other day about a study by a group of ecologists on the effect of visible light (white light from LEDs) on marine growth. The found that certain types of light promoted the growth of certain organisms and repelled other types. They were specifically looking at ways they could use their findings to produce some sort of optical AF system for marine structures/vessels. All a bit pie in the sky, but could be interesting nonetheless! It could have implications for systems that provide some AF protection for hard-to-AF areas, e.g. props.

 

[cmsmarine]

jrudge

Installation takes less than a day (for a 3 transducer system) and does not require any holes to be drilled. Everything required to install the system is included. If a customer was unhappy with the results all that is required to be returned is the control unit and transducers taking no more than a couple of minutes to remove. All cables, mounting rings etc do not need to be returned.

The process of installing an ultrasonic system is quicker than antifouling the hull and unlike paint can be returned if you are not 100% satisfied.

Test boats, Magazine reviews, owners club testimonials are all things we have and do help in the decision process but there is nothing like trying something yourself, on your own boat, with your own use. After all isn't that all that matters ?

With our system there is NO Risk. If you not happy you get your money back. There are no other companies out there offering this service. We do not offer to solve all the worlds problems. We do offer a product that is the most powerful and most intelligent on the market.

If anybody is interested in knowing more about the in's and outs, what to expect, how the trial period works, where the transducers should go then please PM your details and I will respond accordingly. Our phone number and email addresses are available on the websites if you want to discuss anything with us.

Thanks

Sam