UKSA

[jeremyfox]

Hi,

I'm considering spending a lot of money at the UK sailing Academy on the Professional Crew and Skipper Training. I don't know alot about the UKSA except that they seem to be well organised and their website looks good! Has anyone got any experience of UKSA, done the PCST course with them? Was it worth the money?
I'd also be interested in your opinions of the merits of doing an intensive Yachtmaster course. I have some experience but not masses (i.e. about 400 miles plus Day skipper t/p) - do you think I'd be a better sailer if I spend two or three years accumulating the 2500 nm etc?

Cheers,
Jeremy

 

[jimd]

An instructor told me they can be A waste of money, if you fail on the earlier stages.

 

[Chris_Stannard]

The UKSA is a very professional organisation that achieves good results. It has lots of boats and does get most people through the qualification.

I take it you want to sail professionally and you will need more expereience than they can give you in the time available. I would suggest that you do the course and then spend your two years or so building your experience.

Chris Stannard

 

[escape]

A good mate was an instructor there until 1999 and they always seemed very professional.I think he trianed the skippers for chays' bt challenge.
IMHO i dont think it makes too much difference if you do the course then get experience or vise versa but you might get more out of it if you have a few more miles under your belt.
My friend is now skipper on a large swan which campaigns at all the major regattas around the globe but he scrubbed an awful lot of decks before he got that position!

 

[jeremyfox]

Thanks very much for the advice. There seem to be two or three organisations that do this kind of course - UKSA looked to be the biggest and I just wondered if they were the best as well.

 

[Jeremy_W]

I've had a couple of sailing buddies do the UKSA course and gain their YM with all the commercial extras. The instruction, facilities &c, both agreed, are superb. Both are superbly trained sailors. But, despite a lot of ambition and perseverance, neither progressed into professional sailing. I think "escape" is right that it places you firmly on the bottom rung of a career ladder.

But I get the impression that the career ladder is very ageist. People will employ a 25-year old YM Commercial as a deck sweeper with prospects, but they won't employ a 35-year old in the same position and that isn't the fault of UKSA. So check the career paths of recent students from your age group.

 

[jeremyfox]

Thanks for the advice Jeremy_W - I'm 29 so about in the middle of your two age groups, but I get the point. I'm not looking to make loads of money from it (can you?!) - just as a prospect. I'm aiming to buy a yacht and charter it with skipper (me) eventually and the UKSA course seems to be the quickest way to "get qualified".
How old were your two friends?

 

[Jeremy_W]

One must have been at least early-thirties, the other mid-forties with experience of commercial shipping. Best wishes with your skippered chartering!

 

[alant]

Check out chartering carefully, before you get in too deep. Don't know many people unless of independant means who make much money at this. Can be great lifestyle, but may not support even a modest mortgage.
Regarding ageism, this is only applicable to the larger superyachts - silvertops are not the image on these. Otherwise, most charterers etc, like someone with some life experience (as well as sailing ability)- you will act in every capacity possible in what is a leisure industry (entertainments manager, dance master, tour guide, etc, etc.) - if you can do this, age can be irrelevant. There are skippers out there in all age groups who can supply these needs.

 

[jeremyfox]

Thanks alant - I'll bear it all in mind though I'm not even in up to my toes yet so there's still time to rethink it!

 

[Calluna]

I did the PCST course 3 years ago, so things have probably changed since then.

Half of the time was spent on shorebased courses, and these were good. Most of the instructors were really enthusiastic, were good teachers and a wide range of subjects were covered. We had a few problems with the yacht based weeks - largely due to bad weather, engine problems and a couple of dodgy skippers/instructors, who weren't directly employed by UKSA. It was difficult for some people to get the required number of sailing miles. I had 1000 miles before I started the course and only just scraped the number needed. The course didn't teach you to sail properly/well and at the end of the course there were still people who couldn't tell the difference between sailing upwind and downwind. I think that most people passed, or came away with coastal skipper. Most of those that failed were trying to get to yachtmaster in 17 weeks with no previous sailing experience - other than a couple of weeks mile-building with UKSA.

I did the course because I was a dinghy sailor who wanted to skipper yachts commercially and it was the quickest and easiest way to get the sea miles and experience needed to get commercially endorsed yachtmaster. I chose UKSA over the other schools offering commercial yachtmaster courses because of the shorebased facilities and Albatross. It didn't entirely live up to the expectations from the open day - but then that's probably due to my interpretation of the presentations from a very slick marketing department. I ended up treating the course as an extended/expensive holiday (even though it was hard work), having decided half way through that I wanted to own my own boat and maybe charter it sometime in the future, rather than work on someone elses. I enjoyed the course and gained loads more experience and confidence (and yachtmaster) and don't regret doing it - the only problem is that I've only done about 3 weeks sailing since I finished the course and have forgotten a lot of what I learnt.

 

[jeremyfox]

Thanks Calluna - what time of year did you do the course - was it in the autumn/winter? Also, if you don't mind me asking, why have you only done 3 weeks sailing since you did the PCST?

 

[matt_lake]

Jeremy,

I've just signed up for their new Motor Yacht Skipper Training course in October and hope to be working in the industry next year. I'm 33 and currently work in IT within the financial services industry and have decided a change of career is needed before I go mad. My main concern is that in their presentations, the UKSA may have over hyped the career opportunities available. Have you attended one of their open days and if so, what did you think?

Matt

 

[Calluna]

I did the course from May to September (ish) - can't remember exactly, but the exam was around mid September. I would still like to sail for a living - but jobs in the Solent area are too seasonal and the pay is low. If I'd wanted a sailing job when I left UKSA there were plenty about, as long as you didn't mind where in the world you worked, what you started off doing or how much you earnt. The careers staff (I think that they've changed now) put a lot of effort into finding people suitable jobs - and had a high success rate.

I haven't done much sailing since, because straight after the course I bought a house which needed extensive renovating/rebuilding and all our time and money(hence the decision to get a well paid job and not a sailing job in the Solent). We spent last year looking for a boat to buy and eventually bought Calluna in December, sailed her back from Brighton in January and spent the rest of the winter doing her up. She was relaunched at Easter and had been on her mooring in Portsmouth Harbour for 5 days when she was hit by a dredger. We've been battling with insurance companies ever since to get her repaired and she's out of action until October at the earliest. We've chartered a boat for this weekend, so if there's any wind we might get a decent sail in (then again, even motoring is better than being stuck on the shore watching boats drift by).

Heather

 

[jeremyfox]

Matt,

I live in Edinburgh and haven't been organised enough to go to an open day. From the other replies I've had UKSA seem to be very good at marketing but the courses aren't necessarily up to the same standard - that's just the impression I get. I think that employment opportunities must depend to a great extent on how much effort you put into finding them - as in most industries really(?). Maybe there's an element of the old chestnut where graduates are well qualified on paper (i.e. have lots of potential) but don't have any real experience so they can't get the top job they thought they would.
It sounds like you're in about the same position as me - I think of it as if I was moving from some other industry into my job - there's lots of jobs for people who can prove they're good but it's damn hard if you've only got the paper qualifications!
I reckon you might have to spend some time scrubbing decks before you get to command a 100ft ocean cruiser - I'd still do the course but expect to have to do the crap jobs for a while after you graduate. On the bright side you do get to do crap jobs on a boat, probably in the med or caribbean....
Good luck

 

[jeremyfox]

Thanks Heather - where were the most jobs to be found then? Any in the med? Also, did you find it easy to build enough miles for the YM and what experience did you have before starting the course?

Really bad luck with Calluna - hope she's back in the water soon!
Hope you have a good weekends sailing anyway.
Cheers

 

[Calluna]

Jeremy

There were a wide range of jobs available and they were based all over the world including lots in the Med (Sunsail etc.), but I've no idea what's about at the moment.

My only previous experience was dinghy sailing and windsurfing on a reservoir, on and off for 15 years (more off than on) and all the previous sea miles were gained on my inlaw's boat, wherever it happened to be at the time (Solent and Med). I did 1500 miles on the PCST course, most sailing the Cowes-Plymouth-Cherbourg-Guernsey-Cowes route. If people were short of miles near the end of the course, they had extra weeks on Albatross packing in as many miles as possible.

I've no idea how much these professional sailing courses cost now, but the course was expensive then, and I suppose that it's even more expensive now. It is fairly intensive, and you don't get much time off over the 17 weeks. You leave with a stack of RYA tickets and other qualifications - the cost of which soon adds up. I took out a career development loan to pay for the 2 courses that I did at UKSA (so you can defer payment for 6 months or so), which was something I couldn't have done if I'd taken all the qualifications seperately.

Heather

 

[jeremyfox]

Heather - thanks for the info. Did you need to do an extra course to get a Yachmaster ticket or did you get it with 1500 miles? It seems that getting the 2500 miles in (is it a requirement for YM or a recommendation?) has proved difficult for a few people and I want to make sure I'll be able to do it before I pay up. UKSA say that everyone does a minimum of 2000 miles - was that the case on your course?

Cheers
Jeremy

 

[Calluna]

I had about 1000 sea miles before I started the course and did about 1500 on the course. I'd have thought that the examiners look at how you gained the sea miles and how you handle the boat and the crew, rather than exactly how many miles you've logged (sea miles can easily be exagerated in a log book). Most people got the required number of miles, and it wasn't always the fault of UKSA if they didn't. We lost sailing time due to engine problems on a couple of occasions (at one point we were stuck in Plymouth for 4 days). As usual there were also problems with the weather - either too much or too little wind. I think that UKSA recommended that you had 500(ish?) miles before you started the course and lots did mile building with UKSA before the PCST course. It is definitely worth doing as many miles as possible before you start the course, so that there isn't a panic towards the exam date (adds to an already pretty stressful time).

Heather

 

[Jeremy_W]

If you want miles, head for Falmouth PDQ. There are plenty of yachts heading for Northern Spain or straight to Gib in one hop. In Spain (Bayona or La Corunna) you can pick up a berth on a yacht heading Northwards. Two Biscay crossings is 1200 miles +/- plus good experience and night hours.

In Gib "Bianca's", Marina Bay, is the place to hang out for a crew place. They also serve good, honest burgers for carnivores suffering meat withdrawal syndrome after all the seafood of Portugal and Atlantic Spain. The bar in that multi-storey hotel (looks ghastly - the name escapes me) isn't a bad place to be seen either although super-yacht crew tend to chat up the barmaids rather than recruit from the bar-flys. Still Gib & back, plus your present experience gives you all the miles, all the night hours and all the 60+ mile passages you'll need.

Best wishes,
Jeremy.