billskip
Well-known member
How many people on this thread own boats 80' + and how many are in the big business of charter , the majority is I see it are mostly private owner users...
Are you a politician by any chance?
UK yacht registration for any Tom, Dick and Harry?
- Thread starter Baggywrinkle
- Start date
Are you a politician by any chance?
Tranona
Well-known member
Not a politician. Your post is unconnected with my response which was to an observation about the number of agencies that offer services to owners in respect of registration of their boats. The poster who raised it said the agency he spoke to which offered such services to commercial shipping was now targeting large yachts. All I did was to offer additional observations as to why this was a growing potential market.
Your post#36 does not seem connected at all with that aspect of the discussion, nor indeed to the original post which was also about such agencies. While the thread (as usually happens) has drifted away from the original into a discussion on the pros and cons of registering on different registers, your post does not seem to be related even to that. So, not sure what point you are trying to make.
billskip
Well-known member
I think you would make an excellent politician...
billskip
Well-known member
You brought VAT (tax) into it which was not mentioned in the op, also you mentioned owners not residing and just paying the bill's/ expenses.....you said EU, I said Spain which maybe you're not aware is EU.
All I said was (thinking in general) that owners could be subject to tax even if they were not resident, I was responding to your post not the thread context .
Tranona
Well-known member
You are very selective. others brought in VAT, not me - see post#19 to which I added in post#33 additional information on the specific point of states seeming to vary in the way they treat UK registered EU VAT paid yachts. In post#35 I specifically stated that VAT is not related to offshore registration (the service offered by the agencies in question).
You are misunderstanding the point I was making about "ownership". There is a distinction between registered title and ownership. A simple example. Remember the difficulties various governments had in identifying the owners of yachts they wish to impound as being owned by sanctioned Russians. Many, if not all of such yachts (and hundreds of others around the world) are registered to offshore "shell" companies which are not the owners and tracing the line back to the real owner is a challenge, which is why such people use these structures which by definition mean that the title holders and owners are resident or citizens of another country.
Back to your post#36, you may now see why I have difficulty in connecting your observation about Spain and its use of the term "owned or used by" in relation to the subject of either the thread or my specific posts.
Irish Rover
Well-known member
No need to complicate matters with Russian oligarchs and superyacts. Off shore registration and VAT are very relevant to some of us mere mortals as described by me in #4 and #18.
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
Having been involved wit importing of all types of goods I know there is no connection between flag country and import duties and VAT
Duty and VAT is all about where the goods of used with a consent to use for a period of time normally 6 months
I have a boat built in RSA that I could register in then UK of Poland and have no duty or VAT implications in RSA.
I could purchase a boat in the UK and register it in RSA and as long as I do not permantilly import it into RSA thee is no duty and VAT implications on that vessel.
The one question I have is why in the UK and other countries is the a requirement to renew the registration every 5 years
Is it to ensure that the vessel still exists and had not been lost, scraps or distrained so it can be removed from the register.
In my case having a RSA registered vessel that is surveyed every year by law ,proving existence and no change of ownership the existence is confirmed every year so what why the requirement to renew registration every 5 years
It seems unnessary red tape
Duty and VAT is all about where the goods of used with a consent to use for a period of time normally 6 months
I have a boat built in RSA that I could register in then UK of Poland and have no duty or VAT implications in RSA.
I could purchase a boat in the UK and register it in RSA and as long as I do not permantilly import it into RSA thee is no duty and VAT implications on that vessel.
The one question I have is why in the UK and other countries is the a requirement to renew the registration every 5 years
Is it to ensure that the vessel still exists and had not been lost, scraps or distrained so it can be removed from the register.
In my case having a RSA registered vessel that is surveyed every year by law ,proving existence and no change of ownership the existence is confirmed every year so what why the requirement to renew registration every 5 years
It seems unnessary red tape
billskip
Well-known member
I(along with maybe others) probably do.
I can only answer what I believe you to say ,obviously not actually what you say.
You post a lot of very important and interesting stuff, but I find (possible wrongly) that you also tend to say things that are not relevant to the majority of the people here abouts, by that I an not suggesting you are wrong in what you say ,but suggesting as you do the laws that should be followed, but in reality when one is confronted by the authority's, its no good saying "Tranona said you are wrong "
Tranona
Well-known member
Nothing I have said here is "wrong" and of course it may not be relevant to everybody, but I am only commenting on, or adding to other posts. Nowhere am I advising anybody to take any particular course of action. So I am still at a loss to understand what point you are making.
The subject of this thread is relevant to only a small number of people who may be having difficulties in registering their boats and may find using an agency advantageous rather than dealing with the registry direct. They offer a service which includes being a point of contact which is a requirement of most registries, including the UK registry.
Tranona
Well-known member
Simple. Government policy many years ago to make the Registry self financing and the only way to do this was to create a regular revenue stream through renewal fees.
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
Ok makes sense
Is there legislation in the UK regarding the registration of vessels in the UK and the EU
Tranona
Well-known member
No compulsory registration, but required if the boat leaves UK waters to satisfy international maritime law requirements.
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
So where is the legislation (UK or International) about the renewal every 5 years
If there is no legislation what makes it renewal compulsory
My understanding is that if the is a stationary requirement its compulsory but if th is no legislation of laws /regulations any requirement cannot be enforced
billskip
Well-known member
I suspect it like most things, nothing happens till something goes wrong and then you insurance wade's in with a clause at which time all you skittles start to fall....
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
I understand about insurance.
I recently canceled my insurance as it requires my boat to be inspected every year by the local safety authority who refused as my EPIRB battery expired and the OEM would not supply replacement batteries so I went to a local supplier who I had the right to chose by law by the safety authority refused to issue a certificate that was required by my insurance so would refute any claim
We seem to have requirements foisted ono us without any covering laws which just erodes our rights of choice
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
It will be by default, ie the registration lapses after 5 years and thus will require renewal should the vessel depart UK waters.
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
Yes but if there is no legislation that default should be challenged by some like the RYA
The alternative is to move registration to somewhere else like Poland where the ship registration does not expire yet complies with the international requirements and should be accepted by any costal countries
billskip
Well-known member
I think third party insurance is compulsory in the EU....if you live /use your boat in UK waters I dont think you are required to register or insure. That said the upper Thames requires a license, and possible other inland waters.I believe, also the t's&c's of marinas maybe require tpf insurance, but not necessarily registration.
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
On what grounds would you suggest that there could be any form of legal challenge. For sure if people don't like it then they can choose another registration country if available.
Tranona
Well-known member
Renewal is not compulsory. It either lapses or you can have the boat removed from the register in your name either because the boat is sold or you simply don't want it registered any more. If it is Part 1 which is the register of title you get a certificate of deregistration. I have one (many years old) for my boat which is now unregistered because I don't intend leaving UK waters.