LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
The UK has retained the veto in the EC on taxation. Does this mean Red Diesel is safe?
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UK veto on Taxation
- Thread starter LadyInBed
- Start date
Mike21
Well-Known Member
Since G Brown seems to be intent on emptying people's wallets, doubt it/forums/images/icons/mad.gif
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Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
There is probably a difference between tax and duty, like there is a difference between income tax and NIC.
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rjp
Well-Known Member
What it means is Gordon Brown can levy a multitude of taxes that the EU hasn't even thought of yet!
John
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John
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Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
"Having a veto" is a whole world of wallet draining misery away from "Using a veto". After all, who knows whether or not some dubious arrangement was made in back rooms whereby the UK keep a veto to save B liar's face, but prmoise never to use it in return.
Of course, with any luck the referendum will toss it all out anyway.
<hr width=100% size=1>Two beers please, my friend is paying.
Of course, with any luck the referendum will toss it all out anyway.
<hr width=100% size=1>Two beers please, my friend is paying.
Mollari
Well-Known Member
Until we rid the world of the scum that is our current government and install a new modern government with real values, who will remember that the public are the employers of the Government and not the other way around. we will ALL be taxed into extinction./forums/images/icons/smile.gif
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Jeremy_W
Well-Known Member
We're the lowest-taxed nation in Europe at the moment so we've a long way to go to being taxed to extinction. I didn't see many people dead after taxes soared under Thatcher in the Early-Eighties.
I'm curious what a "new modern government" is? Any relation to Cromwell's "New Model Army"?
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I'm curious what a "new modern government" is? Any relation to Cromwell's "New Model Army"?
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cliff
Well-Known Member
TB liar and his cronies will not be happy until they have driven us back to the middle ages - All his cronies will have their own fiefdoms with the peasants (serfs) like you and me living in wattle and daub huts.
Come the revolution.........
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Come the revolution.........
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Joe_Cole
Well-Known Member
Cliff,
Why is it that you talk sense most of the time on boating issues but can talk such unmitigated rubbish when it comes to politics?
There, I think I put that subtlety enough to cause no offence/forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Joe
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Why is it that you talk sense most of the time on boating issues but can talk such unmitigated rubbish when it comes to politics?
There, I think I put that subtlety enough to cause no offence/forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Joe
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Bergman
Well-Known Member
Well not yet we havn't
The "constitution" stillhas to be ratified.
This means a referendum in UK and several other countries, and after last weeks election results the outcome of this is likely to be a rejection.
How TB &Co will manage that will be interesting to say the least.
Even then the "tax" on diesel is actually excise duty which will probably be in a different bit of the constitution and VAT of which there is no sign or suggestion of reducing
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The "constitution" stillhas to be ratified.
This means a referendum in UK and several other countries, and after last weeks election results the outcome of this is likely to be a rejection.
How TB &Co will manage that will be interesting to say the least.
Even then the "tax" on diesel is actually excise duty which will probably be in a different bit of the constitution and VAT of which there is no sign or suggestion of reducing
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cliff
Well-Known Member
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and as I see it this present lot are the worst we have ever had - out to line their own pockets and to hel with joe public.
When I look at other countries anf their systems the UK is bottom of the league in my books although for the minute there are one or two good points but even they are being eroded away.
Glad you appreciate my comments on boating issues though/forums/images/icons/wink.gif
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When I look at other countries anf their systems the UK is bottom of the league in my books although for the minute there are one or two good points but even they are being eroded away.
Glad you appreciate my comments on boating issues though/forums/images/icons/wink.gif
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knowot
Member
I take it you don;t live in a Labour council tax area then
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Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
We're the lowest-taxed nation in Europe at the moment
True... but we also get very little in return for our money. NHS waiting lists, no free choice regarding schools for our children, no decent pension, no public transport, powercuts,...
The basic infrastructure of our country is a shambles. I lived abroad for about 10 years of the last 15, and nowhere was it as bad as it is here. When we lived in France & Belgium my wife was subject to local taxation - she paid more in taxation, but overall it cost us less. Childcare was as good as free, we could choose the school for our children (no catchment areas, etc....) and healtcare waiting lists simply did not exist. And trains actually got you somewhere on time at a reasonable price.
All in all, you get what you pay for.
<hr width=100% size=1>Experience is a good teacher, but she sends in terrific bills.
True... but we also get very little in return for our money. NHS waiting lists, no free choice regarding schools for our children, no decent pension, no public transport, powercuts,...
The basic infrastructure of our country is a shambles. I lived abroad for about 10 years of the last 15, and nowhere was it as bad as it is here. When we lived in France & Belgium my wife was subject to local taxation - she paid more in taxation, but overall it cost us less. Childcare was as good as free, we could choose the school for our children (no catchment areas, etc....) and healtcare waiting lists simply did not exist. And trains actually got you somewhere on time at a reasonable price.
All in all, you get what you pay for.
<hr width=100% size=1>Experience is a good teacher, but she sends in terrific bills.
Jeremy_W
Well-Known Member
>>>I take it you don;t live in a Labour council tax area then
Liverpool, as per my profile,got rid of Labour in 1998 and lost its "most expensive council" tag two years later. But council tax only represents £18B of £423B total taxes.
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Liverpool, as per my profile,got rid of Labour in 1998 and lost its "most expensive council" tag two years later. But council tax only represents £18B of £423B total taxes.
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Jeremy_W
Well-Known Member
You're right, of course, but I was responding to the assumption in Mollari's posting that Britain is a high tax country. Watch political debate; read any tabloid paper; ask your friends... and this assumption is embedded firmly. So the serious debate is curtailed: Do we want to go further towards the US model "low taxes; minimal public services; capitalism red in tooth and claw; major reliance on charities, the state is the enemy..... read any Institute of Economic Affairs pamphlet"? OR
Do we adopt the European model?
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Do we adopt the European model?
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Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
In that case: the European model gets my vote. For Sun "readers" - using the term loosley - don't knock it till you tried it.
Using the wife's paypacket as reference here: In France/Belgium she was subject to roughly 37pct of tax. In exchange we got access to all the goodies listed earlier (education, healthcare, childcare, etc...). In the UK she's subject to roughly 22pct of tax. In exchange we get waiting lists, no freedom of choice, .... . When we returned to Britain we forked out over £500 p/m on childcare alone (playgroup, after school...). In Belgium this was free.
So, while we are a 'low tax' country in absolute terms (percentage) we are a 'high tax' country in relative terms -> we get very little for the tax we do pay.
And make no mistake: capitalism red in tooth & claw is already here. Example: Air Trafic Control!! How the f**k do you privatise safety? Where's the profit? (cutting corners?). Railtrack's record on safety anyone?
Closer to home for me - all RN shipyards are now privatised. Yet shipbuilding & maintenance now costs more than before and is of a lower standard. Why do you think the French will be building our new aircraft carrier? Or why was the Channel Tunnel high speed rail link built under French supervision using equipment built to French standards? BTW: French railways are state owned.
<hr width=100% size=1>Experience is a good teacher, but she sends in terrific bills.
Using the wife's paypacket as reference here: In France/Belgium she was subject to roughly 37pct of tax. In exchange we got access to all the goodies listed earlier (education, healthcare, childcare, etc...). In the UK she's subject to roughly 22pct of tax. In exchange we get waiting lists, no freedom of choice, .... . When we returned to Britain we forked out over £500 p/m on childcare alone (playgroup, after school...). In Belgium this was free.
So, while we are a 'low tax' country in absolute terms (percentage) we are a 'high tax' country in relative terms -> we get very little for the tax we do pay.
And make no mistake: capitalism red in tooth & claw is already here. Example: Air Trafic Control!! How the f**k do you privatise safety? Where's the profit? (cutting corners?). Railtrack's record on safety anyone?
Closer to home for me - all RN shipyards are now privatised. Yet shipbuilding & maintenance now costs more than before and is of a lower standard. Why do you think the French will be building our new aircraft carrier? Or why was the Channel Tunnel high speed rail link built under French supervision using equipment built to French standards? BTW: French railways are state owned.
<hr width=100% size=1>Experience is a good teacher, but she sends in terrific bills.
TheBoatman
Well-Known Member
Down the back of the sofa
3 days ago Gordon, through the IR hit me with a 5K+ tax bill to be paid by next Thursday so I've just emerged from the back of the sofa holding £1.99p and an old 1/2 crown piece. Somehow I don't think this is going to be enough so please don't tell me that were not taxed to the hilt, that I should be grateful that I'm only paying 22% and not 37.
We pay more by way of stealth tax than any other EU state. I agree we get very little for it but then successive Labour governments have always increased the number of non productive workers over productive.
My wife is a teacher and the minister is quite able to say we have thrown X gozillions of squids into education but then we find out that for every teacher there's 3 add on's (non productives) telling her how she should be doing the job despite her having 30 years experience. The same thing goes for the NHS, 3 billion extra squids into the system, end result, 4 new doctors, 2 nurses, 1 cleaner and 5000 "managers" to make sure that the 7 of them are doing the job right. I have a doctor/surgeon friend that works in the local hospital and he told me that the hospital had recently purchased a scanner but didn't have the 14K to employ an operator, so the same hospital spent 30K on a marketing consultant to find out why the waiting list was so high. If they had used the 30K to hire the operator then there would have been no waiting list?
Jeeezus I dispair.
My last child is due to go to uni this year and I've been sent the form to fill in for her "grant" or should I say "student loan". Now I know that I'm (she) will not be entitled to any grant, but this year there was a seperate sheet which informed me that even if I didn't want a grant I had to fill it in or she (I) would be charged more than the standard tuition fees just because I hadn't filled in the form for christ's sake. A more complicated form I have never seen so much so that I had to send it to my accountants to fill in.
I really hate it when I seem to be forced into, what I call, being racist, but it was very evident that if she (my daughter) was not white, unmarried, with kids, not living at home and living off the state the form would have been a sinch to fill in.
I hate politics/politicians and anything to do with it/them.
As a white british born male, married, with kids, that has not had a day of unemployment since the age of 16, a drinking, smoking, car owning, boat owner I'm made to feel inferior in the counrty of my birth.
Rant over!
Now let me go try and find 5 grand for Gordon by next Thursday.
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3 days ago Gordon, through the IR hit me with a 5K+ tax bill to be paid by next Thursday so I've just emerged from the back of the sofa holding £1.99p and an old 1/2 crown piece. Somehow I don't think this is going to be enough so please don't tell me that were not taxed to the hilt, that I should be grateful that I'm only paying 22% and not 37.
We pay more by way of stealth tax than any other EU state. I agree we get very little for it but then successive Labour governments have always increased the number of non productive workers over productive.
My wife is a teacher and the minister is quite able to say we have thrown X gozillions of squids into education but then we find out that for every teacher there's 3 add on's (non productives) telling her how she should be doing the job despite her having 30 years experience. The same thing goes for the NHS, 3 billion extra squids into the system, end result, 4 new doctors, 2 nurses, 1 cleaner and 5000 "managers" to make sure that the 7 of them are doing the job right. I have a doctor/surgeon friend that works in the local hospital and he told me that the hospital had recently purchased a scanner but didn't have the 14K to employ an operator, so the same hospital spent 30K on a marketing consultant to find out why the waiting list was so high. If they had used the 30K to hire the operator then there would have been no waiting list?
Jeeezus I dispair.
My last child is due to go to uni this year and I've been sent the form to fill in for her "grant" or should I say "student loan". Now I know that I'm (she) will not be entitled to any grant, but this year there was a seperate sheet which informed me that even if I didn't want a grant I had to fill it in or she (I) would be charged more than the standard tuition fees just because I hadn't filled in the form for christ's sake. A more complicated form I have never seen so much so that I had to send it to my accountants to fill in.
I really hate it when I seem to be forced into, what I call, being racist, but it was very evident that if she (my daughter) was not white, unmarried, with kids, not living at home and living off the state the form would have been a sinch to fill in.
I hate politics/politicians and anything to do with it/them.
As a white british born male, married, with kids, that has not had a day of unemployment since the age of 16, a drinking, smoking, car owning, boat owner I'm made to feel inferior in the counrty of my birth.
Rant over!
Now let me go try and find 5 grand for Gordon by next Thursday.
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TrueBlue
Well-Known Member
Re: Down the back of the sofa
Fairly recently an unnamed, but senior Government Treasury person admitted that he had absolutely no idea what impact "costwise" the ever increasing welter of form filling had on business.
We blame the political government of the time rather than their invisible minions behind the scenes. What is needed is a campaign, but seeing the total disarray over the diesel issue, I don't hold out much hope
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Stop what you're doing and wait my signal
Fairly recently an unnamed, but senior Government Treasury person admitted that he had absolutely no idea what impact "costwise" the ever increasing welter of form filling had on business.
We blame the political government of the time rather than their invisible minions behind the scenes. What is needed is a campaign, but seeing the total disarray over the diesel issue, I don't hold out much hope
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