UK Based (Liverpool if possible) Solicitor for Boating Matter

[shogun]

Hi,
We had an unfortunate experience in May of this year.
We wanted to buy a power boat and old friend told us that his boat was for sale. So we travelled 500 miles by car to see the boat in Torrevieja. We purchased the boat subject to survey (which was excellent). This was a verbal contract as we had travelled back to our current boat after viewing.
A date was set for taking possession and for making the payment.
However, after stripping our current boat of all of our possessions and again travelling 500 miles, the 'friend' emailed us 4 hours before we were due to take possession, to say that he was not selling.
There are two questions here, 1) we incurred costs of over € 2000 in viewing, surveying etc, and we would either like that back, or 2) has anyone any experience (or know of anyone) who could take a case for Specific Performance in the UK. (we have already determined that it would be a UK case as the boat is register in UK on SSR)

If anyone can help we would very much appreciate it.

regards

 

[Fantasie 19]

Hi,
We had an unfortunate experience in May of this year.
We wanted to buy a power boat and old friend told us that his boat was for sale. So we travelled 500 miles by car to see the boat in Torrevieja. We purchased the boat subject to survey (which was excellent). This was a verbal contract as we had travelled back to our current boat after viewing.
A date was set for taking possession and for making the payment.
However, after stripping our current boat of all of our possessions and again travelling 500 miles, the 'friend' emailed us 4 hours before we were due to take possession, to say that he was not selling.
There are two questions here, 1) we incurred costs of over € 2000 in viewing, surveying etc, and we would either like that back, or 2) has anyone any experience (or know of anyone) who could take a case for Specific Performance in the UK. (we have already determined that it would be a UK case as the boat is register in UK on SSR)

If anyone can help we would very much appreciate it.

regards

I have nothing concrete I can offer, but I think my advice would be to discuss the costs you incurred with your "mate" and give him the opportunity to make good, but if you already have and nothing has come of it, for less than 2K just walk away and forget the whole experience... chalk it up to experience and file under "sh*t happens"... Others may differ....

 

[Sandyman]

To be honest I don't think you have a leg to stand on with this. As the saying goes.......A verbal contract is not worth the paper it's written on.

 

[bigwow]

Talk to the RYA legal department.

 

[Carmel2]

I have nothing concrete I can offer, but I think my advice would be to discuss the costs you incurred with your "mate" and give him the opportunity to make good, but if you already have and nothing has come of it, for less than 2K just walk away and forget the whole experience... chalk it up to experience and file under "sh*t happens"... Others may differ....

I have to agree with the above. House sales go like this all the time.

 

[savageseadog]

It's not really a boating matter, it's standard contract Law. Forget it anyway.

 

[Tranona]

Hi,
We had an unfortunate experience in May of this year.
We wanted to buy a power boat and old friend told us that his boat was for sale. So we travelled 500 miles by car to see the boat in Torrevieja. We purchased the boat subject to survey (which was excellent). This was a verbal contract as we had travelled back to our current boat after viewing.
A date was set for taking possession and for making the payment.
However, after stripping our current boat of all of our possessions and again travelling 500 miles, the 'friend' emailed us 4 hours before we were due to take possession, to say that he was not selling.
There are two questions here, 1) we incurred costs of over € 2000 in viewing, surveying etc, and we would either like that back, or 2) has anyone any experience (or know of anyone) who could take a case for Specific Performance in the UK. (we have already determined that it would be a UK case as the boat is register in UK on SSR)

If anyone can help we would very much appreciate it.

regards

The chances of enforcing a verbal contract without any supporting evidence are pretty slim - and a solicitor would eat up any damages telling you so.

Do not assume just because the boat is registered in the UK that your contract would be made under UK law. The transaction would take place where the boat is located, so Spanish law would apply, unless you could prove that you both agreed that the contract would be under UK law.

Unless you can negotiate something with the seller, seems you have to put this down to experience. While it is reasonable to incur costs of viewing, not wise to incur any other costs such as survey without having a proper written contract which makes it clear what the terms are and the jurisdiction. You can download such a contract from the RYA.

 

[Sandyman]

You can download such a contract from the RYA.

Bit late after the horse has bolted

 

[colind3782]

Walk away. The lawyers fees will be more than your losses.

As an alternative, you could try a Small Claims writ. It might work and won't cost much.

 

[Sandyman]

There is nothing he can claim for. What he has spent out are always the buyers cost.

 

[Tranona]

There is nothing he can claim for. What he has spent out are always the buyers cost.

If he had a signed contract such as the one I referred to above, he would be able to claim for his out of pocket expenses including the survey and travelling expenses incurred after the contract was signed.

Contracts bind both sides and withdrawing is a breach for which there are remedies. If the OP could show that a contract existed, for example through exchanges of correspondence such as e mails then he would stand a good chance in the Small Claims Track. In law a contract does not have to be in writing to make it binding - you just have to show that it will pass the basic tests for a contract which you can read in any basic book on the subject. More difficult of course if there is no third party or written evidence as seems to be the case here.

 

[Richard10002]

Hi,
We had an unfortunate experience in May of this year.
We wanted to buy a power boat and old friend told us that his boat was for sale. So we travelled 500 miles by car to see the boat in Torrevieja. We purchased the boat subject to survey (which was excellent). This was a verbal contract as we had travelled back to our current boat after viewing.
A date was set for taking possession and for making the payment.
However, after stripping our current boat of all of our possessions and again travelling 500 miles, the 'friend' emailed us 4 hours before we were due to take possession, to say that he was not selling.
There are two questions here, 1) we incurred costs of over € 2000 in viewing, surveying etc, and we would either like that back, or 2) has anyone any experience (or know of anyone) who could take a case for Specific Performance in the UK. (we have already determined that it would be a UK case as the boat is register in UK on SSR)

If anyone can help we would very much appreciate it.

regards

Is there NO email correspondence regarding what was agreed, arranging the survey, travelling to and fro. Was it all done verbally either face to face or by phone?

 

[Tam Lin]

Looks like that was the cost of a friend.

 

[shogun]

Hi, thanks for all the input.

As regards email an text correspondence, I have lots. This man, who was the seller of the boat, organized the survey of his boat on my behalf, gave me his insurance details, gave me the details of the marina berth he was in so that i could approach the owner to do a deal, gave me his SSR details so I could get on to the SSR to change the details, sent me a Bill of Sale with all his details (apart from his signature) filled in, gave me the banking details of the account to which the money should be paid. The day we left Gibraltar for torrevieja to take possession we we speaking (?) on text about whether or not he was leaving his kettle and his iron, he told me he was taking his microwave oven so we should bring ours. 12 hours later he reneged on the deal.

I think I have enough (if not too much) circumstantial and other evidence to prove that he seriously entered an agreement, whether verbal or otherwise. The surveyor spoke at length with him about the sale and can confirm that there was no doubt in his mind that a deal had been struck and was being progressed with all possible speed.

Maybe this can throw further light on this situation

Regards

 

[chinita]

That is interesting information.

However, like others have said , legal fees may be a showstopper.

I had a problem with somebody welching on payments for a car I sold (I foolishly agreed to monthly payments and, after the first month, they stopped). I took out a CCJ and got it all back.

You could write a formal letter to the guy itemising your expenses and asking for remuneration; if this is not forthcoming you will regrettably have to apply for a CCJ.

I just hope he is not reading this forum!

 

[RichardS]

Hi, thanks for all the input.

As regards email an text correspondence, I have lots. This man, who was the seller of the boat, organized the survey of his boat on my behalf, gave me his insurance details, gave me the details of the marina berth he was in so that i could approach the owner to do a deal, gave me his SSR details so I could get on to the SSR to change the details, sent me a Bill of Sale with all his details (apart from his signature) filled in, gave me the banking details of the account to which the money should be paid. The day we left Gibraltar for torrevieja to take possession we we speaking (?) on text about whether or not he was leaving his kettle and his iron, he told me he was taking his microwave oven so we should bring ours. 12 hours later he reneged on the deal.

I think I have enough (if not too much) circumstantial and other evidence to prove that he seriously entered an agreement, whether verbal or otherwise. The surveyor spoke at length with him about the sale and can confirm that there was no doubt in his mind that a deal had been struck and was being progressed with all possible speed.

Maybe this can throw further light on this situation

Regards

I'm still not sure that any of that will make a difference unless there was something specific in an email along the lines of "if the seller pulls out of the deal before completion then he will reimburse the buyers expenses to date".

As someone says above, I was buying a house and had spent hundreds on surveys, solicitors fees etc and at the last minute before exchange of contracts the seller changed his mind. I complained to my solicitor that surely the seller should have to reimburse me all my costs but the solicitor said that such a clause would not take effect until contracts were exchanged. There was therefore no chance of getting my money back.

Richard

 

[Richard10002]

Presumably, you felt free to withdraw from the purchase up to at least the point where the survey was concluded, so any expenses, including the survey, could not form part of any claim. In fact, presumably, whilst you obviously didn't want to, you were equally free to withdraw from the purchase up to the point where either a contract was signed by both parties, or you had transferred the money. e.g. had your circumstances changed such that you were no longer able to buy, or wanted to buy, would you have been legally bound to proceed with the purchase, or compensate for any loss?

i think, whichever way you look at it, you hadnt actually concluded any kind of contract, but were merely working towards it.

I guess this is why, when someone makes an offer for a boat, and the seller accepts it, subject to certain things, a contract is drawn up and signed.

I dont know of any precedent, but I'd guess you would be throwing good money after bad if you pursued this, and you would probably find a solicitor happy to take your money, even if they actually thought there was little/no chance of success.

House sales are different to other kinds of contract, as I understand that a sale of property is only binding if in writing, so anything verbal is not binding - although verbal misrepresentations can bite your bum after an exchange of contracts.

 

[Tranona]

Hi, thanks for all the input.

As regards email an text correspondence, I have lots. This man, who was the seller of the boat, organized the survey of his boat on my behalf, gave me his insurance details, gave me the details of the marina berth he was in so that i could approach the owner to do a deal, gave me his SSR details so I could get on to the SSR to change the details, sent me a Bill of Sale with all his details (apart from his signature) filled in, gave me the banking details of the account to which the money should be paid. The day we left Gibraltar for torrevieja to take possession we we speaking (?) on text about whether or not he was leaving his kettle and his iron, he told me he was taking his microwave oven so we should bring ours. 12 hours later he reneged on the deal.

I think I have enough (if not too much) circumstantial and other evidence to prove that he seriously entered an agreement, whether verbal or otherwise. The surveyor spoke at length with him about the sale and can confirm that there was no doubt in his mind that a deal had been struck and was being progressed with all possible speed.

Maybe this can throw further light on this situation

Regards

With this additional information think you have a pretty good case that a contract exists and that the seller is in breach. As i said earlier you are entitled either to force him to perform (ie sell you the boat) or to reimburse your expenses incurred subsequent to the agreement to purchase. All the actions he took are clear evidence that he entered into a contract with you.

Suggest you write a recorded delivery letter to him giving him 14 days to complete the sale, or you will take action to recover your costs. Keep a record of any exchanges, and particularly document the evidence you explain here, including any documents, emails etc, together with an itemised list of your expenses.

If there is no reaction after 14 days, send another letter with your claim for expenses, again giving 14 days to pay, with a statement that if he fails to pay you will take action through the court to recover your loss.

Meanwhile read up on the Small Claims Track - google the term and you will get both the official government site and a number of other sites that give advice on the process. very straightforward, and everything you can do to show that you have given him every chance to meet your claim will help your case, hence the letters. Often starting this process is enough to shock the wrongdoer into action, but from your point of view it is relatively cheap and painless to get to the point of submitting the claim. chances are he will not have a defence and you will get a judgement in your favour. collecting however may be more problematic!

If you do want to involve a solicitor, it does not have to be a marine specialist - this is straightforward contract. However his charges may well exceed any damages you get.

 

[Tranona]

I'm still not sure that any of that will make a difference unless there was something specific in an email along the lines of "if the seller pulls out of the deal before completion then he will reimburse the buyers expenses to date".

As someone says above, I was buying a house and had spent hundreds on surveys, solicitors fees etc and at the last minute before exchange of contracts the seller changed his mind. I complained to my solicitor that surely the seller should have to reimburse me all my costs but the solicitor said that such a clause would not take effect until contracts were exchanged. There was therefore no chance of getting my money back.

Richard

This is very different from a house sale contract as the contract was made before the costs were incurred - unlike a house where the contract comes after the expense. If the buyer did not have an agreement than he would not have done all the things he did, equally if the seller did not intend selling the boat, why did he do all the things he did?

Very clear that a contract existed and the seller is in breach.

 

[chinita]

With this additional information think you have a pretty good case that a contract exists and that the seller is in breach. As i said earlier you are entitled either to force him to perform (ie sell you the boat) or to reimburse your expenses incurred subsequent to the agreement to purchase. All the actions he took are clear evidence that he entered into a contract with you.

Suggest you write a recorded delivery letter to him giving him 14 days to complete the sale, or you will take action to recover your costs. Keep a record of any exchanges, and particularly document the evidence you explain here, including any documents, emails etc, together with an itemised list of your expenses.

If there is no reaction after 14 days, send another letter with your claim for expenses, again giving 14 days to pay, with a statement that if he fails to pay you will take action through the court to recover your loss.

Meanwhile read up on the Small Claims Track - google the term and you will get both the official government site and a number of other sites that give advice on the process. very straightforward, and everything you can do to show that you have given him every chance to meet your claim will help your case, hence the letters. Often starting this process is enough to shock the wrongdoer into action, but from your point of view it is relatively cheap and painless to get to the point of submitting the claim. chances are he will not have a defence and you will get a judgement in your favour. collecting however may be more problematic!

If you do want to involve a solicitor, it does not have to be a marine specialist - this is straightforward contract. However his charges may well exceed any damages you get.

How does this differ from the CCJ track? Seems a lot more convoluted to me; and less of a threat to the defaulter, plus, no problem with payment as the Court arranges that..