Twin V8 Petrols!
- Thread starter CLOUD9
- Start date
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
New 250 outboard is £12-15k and you'd more than cover the cost of fitting by selling the old one, so that rig with brand new warrantied engine is around £30k.
BruceK
Well-Known Member
What's wrong with an ETEC 2 stroke then?
CLB
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't lump E-Tecs in with old fashioned two-strokes. An old 200hp two stroke will be a very different beast to a 200hp E-Tec. These are great engines and I would seriously put them up with four strokes when it comes to choosing which engine. The later G2 are even better!
Stats007
Well-Known Member
The new two-strokes are quite interesting - I haven't seen one in the flesh yet. I had a Yamaha 300HPDi and wouldn't go near another. I understand the benefits a two-stroke offers but topping up with oil becomes a pain - as it paying £40 for 5 litres of the stuff. They're also still lumpy at idle, noisy and noticeably smellier than four-strokes. You immediately limit resale which is why that Sea Fox is still for sale - plenty of people just don't want a two-stroke.
I have a two-stroke tender outboard where they make sense mind you - lightweight - torquey and nothing to service.
I have a two-stroke tender outboard where they make sense mind you - lightweight - torquey and nothing to service.
CLB
Well-Known Member
Its interesting about the oil cost. Most E-Tec users report usage of around 80-90:1 over the season. Let say an average use of 50 hours at an average speed of 15 knots (difficult to work out as a surprising amount of hours are at very slow speeds), that provides an average use of 750 miles. Another assumption coming up, lets say an average of 4mpg out of a 200hp E-Tec and you get a yearly fuel usage of around 190 gallons or 860 litres. At 85:1 that equals 10 litres of special e-Tec oil at £13 per litre means a total oil spend of £130. The oil tank usually only needs filling once a season, maybe twice for a heavy user.
A typical v6 four stroke will take around 6 litres of synthetic sump oil and you will be changing that once a year, so you have an oil cost of £54 at £9 per litre. Filling an oil tank once or twice, against doing an oil change once a year. I think the E-Tec wins out on the hassle factor.
Yes the E-Tec will cost you about £80 more in oil but they only need servicing every three years, rather than annually. I think the cost of ownership between the two is in the balance.
I haven't touched in fuel consumption as this is a bit of a minefield and depends how you use the engine. Some users report better mpg over the season from an E-Tec than an equivalent 4 stroke.
I think there are a lot of closed minds when it comes to modern two strokes, especially the E-Tecs. I certainly would not be put off a boat with one, in fact I would see it as a bonus. I think the reason the Sea Fox is still for sale is more to do with how people in this country typically shy away from this type of outboard powered boat full stop. Especially one from a relatively unknown brand.
A typical v6 four stroke will take around 6 litres of synthetic sump oil and you will be changing that once a year, so you have an oil cost of £54 at £9 per litre. Filling an oil tank once or twice, against doing an oil change once a year. I think the E-Tec wins out on the hassle factor.
Yes the E-Tec will cost you about £80 more in oil but they only need servicing every three years, rather than annually. I think the cost of ownership between the two is in the balance.
I haven't touched in fuel consumption as this is a bit of a minefield and depends how you use the engine. Some users report better mpg over the season from an E-Tec than an equivalent 4 stroke.
I think there are a lot of closed minds when it comes to modern two strokes, especially the E-Tecs. I certainly would not be put off a boat with one, in fact I would see it as a bonus. I think the reason the Sea Fox is still for sale is more to do with how people in this country typically shy away from this type of outboard powered boat full stop. Especially one from a relatively unknown brand.
BruceK
Well-Known Member
Don't bring considered thought and debate into this now. :disgust: We want to shift the focus from shafts vs outdrives. This one's got the legs for it.
Stats007
Well-Known Member
Cruising speed was 25 knots at 4000rpm which is typical of most outboard users I know. 4mpg is quite optimistic as is 80:1 - I was seeing half that with the Yamaha but then as you say it all depends how you use it.
I had a Suzuki DF250 - oil service can be done every two years or 100 hours. From memory it's semi-synthetic and costs about £6 a litre - though I paid £4 as a friend buys a drum at a time.
I had a Suzuki DF250 - oil service can be done every two years or 100 hours. From memory it's semi-synthetic and costs about £6 a litre - though I paid £4 as a friend buys a drum at a time.
Mr Googler
Well-Known Member
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1991/Formula-419-SR-1-2847547/Kent/United-Kingdom#.
Now we're talking. Triple Nanni's. Custom frame too which would no doubt look good in the garden.
Now we're talking. Triple Nanni's. Custom frame too which would no doubt look good in the garden.
Kieronm
New Member
I considered a Formula 310 with 2 x V8s after selling my Baja 26 with 1 x 496 Mag V8, then I remembered how much fuel the Baja used, Sunseeker Superhawk 34, deposit paid, sea trial done, should take delivery early next month, very happy !!.
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
Have a cigar(ette)?
Surely MapisM identified the perfect boat for Cloud9...Seats five:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...kers-for-a-heck-of-a-ride&highlight=cigarette
Surely MapisM identified the perfect boat for Cloud9...Seats five:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...kers-for-a-heck-of-a-ride&highlight=cigarette
Stats007
Well-Known Member
cliffdale
Well-Known Member
Hmm, twin petrols? I was just having a look at http://www.boats.co.uk/boats-for-sale/sunseeker-superhawk-34-1231 and working out the cost of running between petrol and diesel. I passed on this one.
Stats007
Well-Known Member
The Superhawk 34 is a great boat - as is the olderhawk Tomahawk if you can find a nice one. What did you work out the difference to be roughly? Assuming 50hrs a season I suppose £3k extra a year on fuel?
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
My new 300 was £14k, albeit 2 years ago, so I guessed 12-15 for a 250 today.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Rick
Taking Nickh's post further.
Do you really wand a second boat at all.
When we moved to Devon (really close to Teignmouth and Torquay) I always thought that I'd have a UK boat to play with at home.
Then I thought back to my dinghy racing days (cats) when I had two fundamentally different boats - sometimes both kept at my sailing club.
When I was sailing one, I really wanted to be in the other and visa versa.
So I took one and left it at home so that I could only use one but there were still times that I wished I was sailing the other one.
My decision after moving from Berkshire to Devon to live by the sea was not to have a UK boat at all and concentrate on the Med based boat.
Since then, I've never craved a UK based boat - best decision (non decision really) I've ever made.
So, as Nick says - think long and hard.
Taking Nickh's post further.
Do you really wand a second boat at all.
When we moved to Devon (really close to Teignmouth and Torquay) I always thought that I'd have a UK boat to play with at home.
Then I thought back to my dinghy racing days (cats) when I had two fundamentally different boats - sometimes both kept at my sailing club.
When I was sailing one, I really wanted to be in the other and visa versa.
So I took one and left it at home so that I could only use one but there were still times that I wished I was sailing the other one.
My decision after moving from Berkshire to Devon to live by the sea was not to have a UK boat at all and concentrate on the Med based boat.
Since then, I've never craved a UK based boat - best decision (non decision really) I've ever made.
So, as Nick says - think long and hard.
gjgm
Well-Known Member
I think NickH shows he fell into the classic trap of only having two boats and then gets pulled two ways.Far better to have several and then you will not even notice that you are not using them all.
rwoofer
Well-Known Member
I can associate with that. At last count I had 13 waterborne craft all in the UK!
QBhoy
Well-Known Member
My opinion, for what it's worth to you....
All depends on how much you use it or to what extent you plan to cruise.
Diesels are great, don't get me wrong, but extremely expensive to get the same power and performance of the equivalent petrol. It's a case of weighing it all up. Price of boat in the first place and to what extent you want to cruise.
I have a fair bit of experience with the tried and tested GM V6 and V8 engines. To be honest, there isn't much goes wrong as long as you are aware of the sacrificial parts you will need to replace (if raw water cooled) in salt water.
Older carb models are pretty bullet proof and people will tell you that MPI and fuel injected variants are a nightmare. Not really true, if you keep on top of things.
Currently I have a mercruiser V8 MPI, I've learned that it's a great idea to replace the distributor and rotor every year. There is a known fault with this. It tends to attact moisture during the off season, causing the engine to have poor running exhibits, misfiring or even non starting problems. You can remove and clean in an emergency, but best to replace every year with genuine Delco parts.
WD-40 all electrical connections as frequently as possible.
The advantage is that they are extremely economical at cruising speeds, in comparison to the carb and can certainly rival the diesel equivelant given the much lower purchase and service cost....or God forbid, replacement cost !
All the best.
All depends on how much you use it or to what extent you plan to cruise.
Diesels are great, don't get me wrong, but extremely expensive to get the same power and performance of the equivalent petrol. It's a case of weighing it all up. Price of boat in the first place and to what extent you want to cruise.
I have a fair bit of experience with the tried and tested GM V6 and V8 engines. To be honest, there isn't much goes wrong as long as you are aware of the sacrificial parts you will need to replace (if raw water cooled) in salt water.
Older carb models are pretty bullet proof and people will tell you that MPI and fuel injected variants are a nightmare. Not really true, if you keep on top of things.
Currently I have a mercruiser V8 MPI, I've learned that it's a great idea to replace the distributor and rotor every year. There is a known fault with this. It tends to attact moisture during the off season, causing the engine to have poor running exhibits, misfiring or even non starting problems. You can remove and clean in an emergency, but best to replace every year with genuine Delco parts.
WD-40 all electrical connections as frequently as possible.
The advantage is that they are extremely economical at cruising speeds, in comparison to the carb and can certainly rival the diesel equivelant given the much lower purchase and service cost....or God forbid, replacement cost !
All the best.
CLOUD9
Well-Known Member
The fundamental question!.... I think so. All very valid points though Mike, and I can already feel the 'I told you so' potential of this when in 18 months I'm trying to offload a boat that hasn't been used enough.
The sensible thing would be to see how we get on this season in Mallorca, but Im already missing being on the water when Im here in the UK.
I should perhaps say that I probably wouldn't be bothering if I had to travel to a marina, but the boat is part of a plan to spend more time in Dorset when not in Mallorca, and the boat will be literally a few steps from the door. I will post some pics if I go ahead!
Thanks all for the info on the motors. I saw the boat yesterday and have to say that theres nothing quite like the rumble of V8 petrols!
