Twenty Small Sailboats, your version

[webcraft]

Difference might be that I have done it. The Contessa was nearly awash below before the night was half over.
Anyone got £20k I can find you a choice of OOD Sigmas, the mh ones will be even cheaper though I admit, harder to find.

Not disputing you could find a Sigma33 for a tad under £20,000 but I think it would need a lot spent to bring it up to bluewater spec. Also, the forepeak on a Sigma is pitifully small so not so comfortable IMO for long term liveaboard in harbour as you would have to sleep in the saloon.

Better to buy something slightly smaller and have something left in the pot to spend on it when its inadequacies become apparent.

Why was the Contessa awash down below? What caused that that wouldn't have happened on a Sigma?

- W

 

[Kelpie]

.
The Vega is a well-tried solution to affordable blue water crusing. We've dabbled with a trip to the Canaries and Azores, so FWIW here's my thoughts on the pros and cons of this particular type:

PROS
-----
~ Simple, well-built, not much to go wrong, not prone to osmosis

~ Encapsulated long keel with cutaway forefoot is IMO an optimum hull shape combining excellent speed for waterine length with good seakeeping qualities

~ Great fun to sail - not at all pedestrian

~ Open nature of accommodation (no chart table or extensive galley) means there is plenty of living space and an airy feel down below

~ More space in the forepeak than many 33 footers - a proper double bed space means you have a proper 'ownrs cabin' in harbour or at anchor

~ Good self-draining cockpit, side decks big enough to go forward safely, capacious stowage in cockpit lockers and lazarette

~ Excellent ventilation system 'built in' by the designer means the boat stays dry inside

~ Over 3,000 built - always a few on the market, loads of advice, support and spares from the Owners Association

~ Great value for money if you choose the right one

CONS
------
~ Only 5' 7" standing headroom - fine for us as we are dwarves, but not so good for tal people. (halcyon 27 has better headroom)

~ No chart table - although many people have built a solution while others don't find it a problem

~ Galley usually hasn't got an oven unless the layout has been modified. Again, we didn't find that a problem during the year we lived on board

~ Windows are a known weakness in knockdown/survival situations. Some replace them with alu frames, we made stormboards (cheap and easy).

~ Original (Volvo) engines and the insane Combi stern gear are generally worn out and should be thrown away - ideally look for one where a previous owner has already re-engined or be prepared to do this before setting off.

~ Anchor locker slightly small - we just about manage to cram 35m chain and 20m warp in ours

-------------------------

Hope this is useful, perhaps people with other types in this category (cheap potential liveaboard/bluewater) could post similar lists of pros and cons.

- W

That's a really useful synopsis. I'm in the process of acquiring my own Vega and can't wait to get out sailing.
I'll bow to your much greater experience/knowledge of these boats, but can I add the nifty saloon table to the list? I discovered the other day that it will easily swivel around into all sorts of positions, so you can swivel it out of the passageway without dismantling it (and without having to tidy it up either!) And of course it can go in the cockpit too.

On the cons, you didn't mention the notorious handling under power, although I've been aboard with the current/previous owner and was impressed by the control he had.
As another 'con' would you add that the heads isn't *really* separate?

 

[webcraft]

On the cons, you didn't mention the notorious handling under power, although I've been aboard with the current/previous owner and was impressed by the control he had.
As another 'con' would you add that the heads isn't *really* separate?

Handling under power is better with a conventional gearbox as you can use the propwalk. It is never going to be great though and we rarely reverse into a marina berth! (Although if you can manage it it saves departure embarrassment). However . . . what percentage of your mileage do you expect to do motoring in reverse?

Heads privacy could be a bit of an issue, but I once sailed on a Vega which had a second thin door hinged the other side so that the heads compartment could be completely closed off, so it is possible.

- W

 

[Kilter]

Tradewind 33, very capable, strong. Did an extended Atlantic circuit in one.

 

[Sequoiah1]

Tradewind 33, very capable, strong. Did an extended Atlantic circuit in one.

not sure you would find one for under 30k let alone 20k

 

[Kilter]

not sure you would find one for under 30k let alone 20k

The OP said up to 30k so the 33 might just squeeze under that bar, the 35 probably wouldn't though

 

[kesh]

the vega was a very likely candidate even before i made this thread, that is if i don't want to go the higher end of my budget. i made the thread because i wondered about other options though.

nobody mentioned in the cons of the vega the deck-stepped mast compression issue. is this the problem vigor seems to think it is?

another point of interest with the vega is they seem to be far, far cheaper in sweden.

but again, thanks for all the suggestions, this is a great source of info for someone in my position.

 

[Dyflin]

another point of interest with the vega is they seem to be far, far cheaper in sweden.

Probably not when you start adding up the costs of viewing, disappointment, viewing, disappointment, viewing, surveying, disappointment, viewing, surveying, purchasing, shake down sail, disappointment, repairs, passage costs etc.

Nobody said that owning an old boat was easy

 

[Porthandbuoy]

I think the OP needs to be advised that only 70% to 80% tops, of his budget, should be spent buying his boat. He'll need the balance, and probably then some, to fit it out the way he wants.

 

[kesh]

I think the OP needs to be advised that only 70% to 80% tops, of his budget, should be spent buying his boat. He'll need the balance, and probably then some, to fit it out the way he wants.

the OP has already posted to that effect

 

[kesh]

Probably not when you start adding up the costs of viewing, disappointment, viewing, disappointment, viewing, surveying, disappointment, viewing, surveying, purchasing, shake down sail, disappointment, repairs, passage costs etc.

Nobody said that owning an old boat was easy

yeah, but you know, might be fun.

 

[ff_nick]

Aphrodite101
Nicholson 32
Rival 32
Nantucket clipper
Sadler32
Twister
Rustler31
She 31/32
Contest 30
Elizabethan 29/30
Contessa 32
Golden Hind 31
Hustler30
Pioneer 9m
Trintella 29
Achilles 840

Moodys and Westerlies are all capable.

Lets not forget the huge number of wooden boats also out there of which there are too many to mention.
Favored would be a twister or a vega keeping it small and simple.

All of the above plus:

Arpege
Ecume de mer

 

[kesh]

Lets not forget the huge number of wooden boats also out there of which there are too many to mention.

had a wooden boat sink under me, a "canal cruiser". so never again. i know it's prejudiced. my cousin has taken his 1914 wooden boat to south america. but i just wouldn't sleep so well in one after the experience.

 

[Quandary]

Not disputing you could find a Sigma33 for a tad under £20,000 but I think it would need a lot spent to bring it up to bluewater spec. Also, the forepeak on a Sigma is pitifully small so not so comfortable IMO for long term liveaboard in harbour as you would have to sleep in the saloon.

Better to buy something slightly smaller and have something left in the pot to spend on it when its inadequacies become apparent.

Why was the Contessa awash down below? What caused that that wouldn't have happened on a Sigma?

- W

Forecabin of the 33OOD is as big as on many of the boats listed above, while I normally used the quarterberth, I found it comfortable enough for two when my wife was aboard and she is quite tall, though I would agree it is not somewhere to sleep on a long beat. Most OODs are maintained to a very high class standard which means they have good sails inc. spinnakers and generous high spec. winches and deck gear etc. They don't have single line reefing but it still reefs easily and they carry full sail to some high numbers. For instance class rules require two anchors with chain etc. Where they may be deficient is in possibly not having ebers or calorifiers, but then not every boat has those.
The wetness of the Contessa was because of the amount of water sweeping back over the
deck and coachroof, (when you are racing at night the navigator tends to be up and down like a whores drawers, especially pre decca/gps) the Sigma has a less attractive profile but the significantly higher freeboard means big waves dont tend to get back past the hatch garage. (As 'hard' racers we never had a sprayhoods, though most Sigmas and Conrtessas have them now, at least when cruising) I don't agree that you should discount a boat, particularly pre 80s, just because it was intended for racing, it can mean a higher standard of nearly everything, in the seventies, unlike today, nearly everybody raced until they felt too old for it.
Impalas, Hydros and to an extent the Bolero were other smaller seaworthy David Thomas Designs.

 

[doug748]

Hello kesh

Aphrodite101
Nicholson 32
Rival 32
Nantucket clipper
Sadler32
Twister
Rustler31
She 31/32
Contest 30
Elizabethan 29/30
Contessa 32
Golden Hind 31
Hustler30
Pioneer 9m
Trintella 29
Achilles 840

Moodys and Westerlies are all capable.

Be prepared for this thread to ramble a bit.

I like Sequoiah's list and, indeed ff-nich with his Arpege and Ecume de Mer.
Plastic Folkboats are capable but, in my view, too small for all but the exceptional sailor. The Marieholm 32 is rare in this country but you might be lucky and get one for around 20k.
PS
Sadler 29 also worth thinking about, tatty one here:
http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/r810/r810.htm

 

[kesh]

Be prepared for this thread to ramble a bit.

exactly what i want

I like Sequoiah's list and, indeed ff-nich with his Arpege and Ecume de Mer.
Plastic Folkboats are capable but, in my view, too small for all but the exceptional sailor. The Marieholm 32 is rare in this country but you might be lucky and get one for around 20k.

do you just mean the folkboat/international folkboat, or that plus the "variations on a theme" like the vega and contessa 26.

i haven't checked every recommendation but there seems a a lot of folkboat types at around 26ft for 5-10,000 and plenty of 31-33 footers for 20-30,000.

my ideal budget is right inbetween.

 

[banger]

And the Oysterman 22,strong, very seaworthy, four berth, seperate toilet,good galley, over six foot headroom, powerful gaff rig, deep cockpit, easy single hander ,well that's my opinion mine is for sale!!

 

[webcraft]

nobody mentioned in the cons of the vega the deck-stepped mast compression issue. is this the problem vigor seems to think it is?

I don't think so. We beat most of the way round Ireland in strong conditions with no problems, but then we never really tighten the rigging too much.

When we were in La Gomera a young guy on an Achilles 24 was tightening his rigging with a Loos gauge prior to settting off across the pond, and I borrowed it from him. Our cap shrouds barely registered. I did them up a bit, but not a lot. In spite of this the rig has never shown any untoward symptoms (wobbling, pulsing, bending and all the other alarming things people speak about) and we are closer winded than many boats.

You can in any event get a mast beam reinforcing kit from the Vega Association for under £200, and it is not rocket science to fit it, just the same PITA so many things are on a boat. We carried one to the Canaries and back intending to fit it en-route, and I eventually fitted it the year after we got back, more for peace of mind than because there was any problem. I have increased the rigging tension slightly now, but it doesn't make a lot of difference - adjusting forestay tension with the backstay is far more critical when going to windward.

Anyway, you are going to be cruising not racing, and long hard bashes to windward can generally be avoided if you have plenty of time.


- W

 

[doug748]

exactly what i want

do you just mean the folkboat/international folkboat, or that plus the "variations on a theme" like the vega and contessa 26.

Well, Its a bit of a sliding scale. The International Folkboat is particularly small below decks (though is spacious compared with the "genuine article" the plastic Nordic Folkboat) the Contessa is bigger and the Vega bigger again.
All fine choices but with (say) £20,000 to spend, I would say you can afford to go for a bit more space and comfort at sea.

 

[webcraft]

.
We paid £11,000 for our Vega in 2003 and I reckon by the time we left the UK in 2006 for our year long Atlantic cruise we had spent another £8,000 on a new engine, new rigging, sails, safety gear, spares and general refurbishment. The preparation must have been good because nothing broke in 6,000 miles while we were away - all we had to replace was the batteries. Mind you, we always sail her very conservatively on offshore passages.

I think it is much better to buy a cheaper boat and make sure it is up to the job than to set off with a lot of dodgy gear in a bigger boat and run out of money or worse when things start breaking.

You don't need space at sea, just a secure cockpit and a good seaberth, and the Vega's motion in a seaway is more comortable than many. In harbour there is a surprisingly spacious feel to the accommodation - it is huge compared to a Contessa 26.

- W