turbocharging

[grafozz]

Hi , from the raggie forum ,
I am thinking about adding a turbo charger to my VP 10 hp marine engine and thought there would be more knowledge on the "other side "
my question is can it be done ?
its an MD 2010 with a water cooled exhaust manifold , so it will need to be a small turbo , there is lots of space around the engine and exhaust system , which feeds into a Vetus water silencer .
any turbo experts out there ? any advice will be appreciated.
thanks , grafozz

 

[Chris_d]

Why would you want to? guess you might boost it to 15hp but how much extra speed will you get, one knot? extra horsepower in a displacement yacht is unlikely to give much better performance unless the engine is not running running right now, I would either make sure its running correctly first or if you really need more power just fit a 15hp engine.

 

[kashurst]

Fitting a turbo is rather more complex than just bolting one on. You would need the injection pump and injectors recalibrated to inject more fuel with increased turbo pressure, upgrade the cooling system, possibly new pistons to take the extra force etc. Probably much easier and more effective to look for a secondhand engine with more power.

Also if its a displacement mode sailing boat you wont go any faster if you already achieve maximum hull speed through the water. max speed (knots) is approximately 1.3 X sq root of water line length (in feet).

 

[burgundyben]

Fitting a turbo is rather more complex than just bolting one on. You would need the injection pump and injectors recalibrated to inject more fuel with increased turbo pressure, upgrade the cooling system, possibly new pistons to take the extra force etc. Probably much easier and more effective to look for a secondhand engine with more power.

And an oil feed and drain back into the sump.

 

[elton]

Hi , from the raggie forum ,
I am thinking about adding a turbo charger to my VP 10 hp marine engine and thought there would be more knowledge on the "other side "
my question is can it be done ?
its an MD 2010 with a water cooled exhaust manifold , so it will need to be a small turbo , there is lots of space around the engine and exhaust system , which feeds into a Vetus water silencer .
any turbo experts out there ? any advice will be appreciated.
thanks , grafozz

Why do you want to? If it's just as an occasional necessity, have you considered nitrous oxide? It's a lot simpler and cheaper to fit than a turbo (though it's a different story in the case of a diesel).

 

[Divemaster1]

Fitting a turbo is rather more complex than just bolting one on. You would need the injection pump and injectors recalibrated to inject more fuel with increased turbo pressure, upgrade the cooling system, possibly new pistons to take the extra force etc. .........Also if its a displacement mode sailing boat you wont go any faster if you already achieve maximum hull speed through the water. max speed (knots) is approximately 1.3 X sq root of water line length (in feet).

The OP could be looking for more power to push against tide and possibly weather if and when it is on the bow ...

.... but you forgot to mention possible new shaft (to take the extra torque) and new propellor to take advantage of the extra available power ... Prop will probably not spin faster, so need bigger prop or higher pitch to take advantage of the extra Hp ... to coin a phrase from someone else in here "Propellors move boats, not engines"... (boats under pure sail excluded from that statement)....

 

[penfold]

Why do you want to do it? If it's for the engineering challenge then fair enough, but if you want a reliable boat engine I'd advise against unless your name is Harry Ricardo or similar. I'm only aware of one production turbocharged small boat diesel, the VP 2003T. They built it because there was a big gap in their product range between 30-70hp. Nothing wrong with it particularly, but it requires more careful maintenance than a normally aspirated diesel of the same size. The replacement for the 2003T, the VP 2040, is not turbocharged because it is cheaper to provide the power with more cubic capacity rather than forced induction.

If you need more power fit a bigger engine, not a turbo. For example; unless you fit a injector pump with boost sensing, you will need to increase fuelling overall to provide the power increase. This will give you lots of smoke offboost.

 

[jimmcgee]

cheaper with NOS

http://www.mrsharkey.com/lpg.htm only need to use it in emergency's

 

[Tranona]

Hi , from the raggie forum ,
I am thinking about adding a turbo charger to my VP 10 hp marine engine and thought there would be more knowledge on the "other side "
my question is can it be done ?
its an MD 2010 with a water cooled exhaust manifold , so it will need to be a small turbo , there is lots of space around the engine and exhaust system , which feeds into a Vetus water silencer .
any turbo experts out there ? any advice will be appreciated.
thanks , grafozz

Forget it. Turbocharging on low output small diesels does not work. It only improves power at the top end, which you rarely use. As already mentioned the only turbo small output diesel was the Volvo 2003T which Volvo dropped as soon as they had access to Japanese engines and could have a vastly superior naturally aspirated engine.

You can now get 14-16hp twins from various suppliers if you want a bit (like 40-50%!) more power but don't need to jump to 20hp.

 

[Firefly625]

your making me feel uncharitable... i couldn't sum up a response...

 

[grafozz]

ah...

well thanks guys ,
yes , it is for the engineering challenge and there are 2 x engines (catamaran ) so new engines are not on the cards .
the engines go through saildrives which are the same as 40 hp models use so no problems there .
I can sort the oil feed by teeing off an existing union .

would a small intercooler keep things cool enough ?

only thing left to investigate is the fueling , there is a mechanical pump which I will look into the possibility of adjusting .

the idea is to make a little more power when pushing the elements , 2x 10 hp is not a lot of power for a 38 ft catamaran . 2x 15 hp would give much better drive against the weather .

the compression ratio is 23.5 :1 now so the pistons will be strong enough the handle an extra .5 bar boost .

any more thoughts , please ?

 

[burgundyben]

well thanks guys ,
yes , it is for the engineering challenge and there are 2 x engines (catamaran ) so new engines are not on the cards .

You'd get money back from the 10h ones and the 15's don't have to be new. Would a swap like that really be much more expensive than a pair of charge coolers and turbo's and the fabrication etc to do the job?

 

[Chris_d]

You will also ruin the resale value of the boat, modified engines are frowned upon in boats.

 

[moonraker 36]

would'nt a rebore over sized piston's and a head job be easier?.

 

[PaulGooch]

well thanks guys ,
yes , it is for the engineering challenge and there are 2 x engines (catamaran ) so new engines are not on the cards .
the engines go through saildrives which are the same as 40 hp models use so no problems there .
I can sort the oil feed by teeing off an existing union .

would a small intercooler keep things cool enough ?

only thing left to investigate is the fueling , there is a mechanical pump which I will look into the possibility of adjusting .

the idea is to make a little more power when pushing the elements , 2x 10 hp is not a lot of power for a 38 ft catamaran . 2x 15 hp would give much better drive against the weather .

the compression ratio is 23.5 :1 now so the pistons will be strong enough the handle an extra .5 bar boost .

any more thoughts , please ?

Yup, it's a non-starter.

By the time you buy the parts and do the work it would be much more costly than swapping the engines out. You cannot just hang a turbo on a normally aspirated engine. The issue with the pistons isn't the turbo boost, it's the increase in heat and subsequent rise in compression. Fitting an intercooler won't work, no air to cool it. You need a water cooled charge air cooler. The cost of a turbo, charge air cooler, engine mods and all of the associated parts to install it would cost more than changing the engines. Not to mention, the increase in power would be very small, certainly would not be 50%.

 

[gordmac]

You could probably get a bit more out of the engine by a bit of work on reducing intake resistance and gas flowing the head with an increase in fuelling from the pump.

 

[penfold]

Yup, it's a non-starter.

By the time you buy the parts and do the work it would be much more costly than swapping the engines out. You cannot just hang a turbo on a normally aspirated engine. The issue with the pistons isn't the turbo boost, it's the increase in heat and subsequent rise in compression. Fitting an intercooler won't work, no air to cool it. You need a water cooled charge air cooler. The cost of a turbo, charge air cooler, engine mods and all of the associated parts to install it would cost more than changing the engines. Not to mention, the increase in power would be very small, certainly would not be 50%.

Also, given the significant power increase desired, you are into the realm of reducing the static compression ratio and piston crown cooling to avoid piston related unpleasantness. As the saying goes; if you want to get there I wouldn't start from here. A less risky plan would be obtaining a pair of used 2020 or 2030(or the Perkins equivalent Perama M20 or M30) and fit to the existing saildrives.

 

[Tranona]

Also, given the significant power increase desired, you are into the realm of reducing the static compression ratio and piston crown cooling to avoid piston related unpleasantness. As the saying goes; if you want to get there I wouldn't start from here. A less risky plan would be obtaining a pair of used 2020 or 2030(or the Perkins equivalent Perama M20 or M30) and fit to the existing saildrives.

These engines do come up from time to time because when the saildrive fails a new drive unit is so expensive that it is usually better to replace the whole engine drive unit. Dealers will take the old engines in part exchange because they know they can sell a working engine fairly easily.

I was "lucky" when my saildrive failed because at that time Volvo dealers could buy complete engines a drives, split them and then buy another gearbox or drive at OE price. So my drive was just over £2k. It is now nearer £5k as a spare whereas a complete new engine/drive package is around £8k.

Another alternative for the OP is to buy a "bob tail" Beta or Vetus engine that will fit straight onto the Volvo drive.

 

[tinkicker0]

well thanks guys ,
yes , it is for the engineering challenge and there are 2 x engines (catamaran ) so new engines are not on the cards .
the engines go through saildrives which are the same as 40 hp models use so no problems there .
I can sort the oil feed by teeing off an existing union .

would a small intercooler keep things cool enough ?

only thing left to investigate is the fueling , there is a mechanical pump which I will look into the possibility of adjusting .

the idea is to make a little more power when pushing the elements , 2x 10 hp is not a lot of power for a 38 ft catamaran . 2x 15 hp would give much better drive against the weather .

the compression ratio is 23.5 :1 now so the pistons will be strong enough the handle an extra .5 bar boost .

any more thoughts , please ?

7 and a bit psi boost when driven from a ditch pump engine? Dream on.

 

[jerrytug]

I would suggest making sure your hulls rudders saildrives are shiney smooth,then have a ruthless weight reduction drive,spend a few bob replacing cast iron pans or whatever,kindle not hardbacks,etc etc,will give the same effect you seek with turbos,but also under sail! Cheers Jerry. PS you can't just bolt on blowers believe it.