Tru design Seacocks in the engine space.

[Clancy Moped]

Which ones, specifically what did they say?

Ask your insurance, I don't have a copy of my old Pantaenius policy, have you fitted one in the engine bay?

 

[Rappey]

Trudesign say they are flame retardent and suitable for engine rooms.

 

[Elessar]

Tru design say its fine but a suveyer has said not recommended. Any views?

Not allowed on a coded boat.

Bonkers as the log and depth sounder are allowed.

But there’s the rules.

 

[Elessar]

You are all peering down the wrong end of the telescope.

Could it be chemicals often leaked out in the ER ( fuel , old oil etc as examples but not limited ) might degrade the nylon latently ? Or repeated heat cycles over the years results in embrittlement ?

Its more likely that because the person fitting them thinks it’s fit n forget .Parked the whole sea cock problem .

While trad metals have certainly inspection and change out regimes are better at resisting ER leaks and heat cycles and of course folks inadvertently standing on them or dropping eg a battery on them !

Do you ever run out of complete and utter made up rubbish ??

 

[dankilb]

a suveyer has said

Chat to him by all means - but on the basis of that alone, don’t let them anywhere near your boat or pay them any money. They’re chatting the proverbial.

As an experiment I tried to ‘modify’ a (spare/surplus/for disposal) TD fitting first with a MAP torch (smelled funny and glowed but stayed intact as long as I could stand the fumes) and following that with a lump hammer (nah).

 

[dankilb]

Not allowed on a coded boat.

Bonkers as the log and depth sounder are allowed.

But there’s the rules.

Tried to edit my above post to add - ‘fair enough’, if required by MCA. Still nuts though.

Wonder if OP is even coding or whether the surveyor’s advice was implied as universal?

 

[dombuckley]

He can say whatever he likes, but will need to justify such statements with some kind of evidence otherwise TruDesign would have very good grounds for action against him.

This is just one man's advice based on his opinion. TruDesign would have better grounds to take action against YBW: in pretty much every "which seacock" type article published in the last two decades, the "cons" against FRP seacocks have always included something along the lines of "Not as fire-resistant as metal, thus not ideal for use in engine spaces and other areas with a fire risk." (Direct quote from YM, June 2011).

In theory, what they say is absolutely true: FRP valves are less fire-resistant than metal equivalents. In the real world, however, it makes absolutely no difference, as you will have lost the ship long before the seacocks melt. My one concern with FRP valves is that load-spreading collars need to be properly fitted, especially in areas such as engine spaces, where they may get stepped on or have heavy objects dropped on them. Personally, I would have no qualms about seeing an FRP valve in the engine space, unless when metal is required by coding. Especially given the variability in the quality / longevity of some metals in sea water - I would be far more concerned about all the CW617N plated brass valves which still get sold to unsuspecting punters.

 

[fisherman]

Folk like the MCA and other authorities have to come up with 'rules', it's their job, and they tend to be blanket coverall rules that don't suit every situation. Our problem is finding out exactly what they are before some insurance company leans on them to refuse a claim. I feel like giving the ins co a spec document for them to sign agreeing to what they are insuring, rather like the proposal they get us to sign.

 

[lustyd]

Ask your insurance, I don't have a copy of my old Pantaenius policy, have you fitted one in the engine bay?

My insurance says nothing about them. Yes I have one for the engine intake, they’re much better than metal fittings.

 

[lustyd]

Not allowed on a coded boat.

Bonkers as the log and depth sounder are allowed.

But there’s the rules.

Do you have a link to something covering this? Curious how it’s worded officially

 

[Elessar]

Do you have a link to something covering this? Curious how it’s worded officially

Told by my surveyor who’s word is the law when coding. I could appeal or find another surveyor ti see if the outcome is different. But I trust the one I have.

It is a shame as I’d have chosen tru design when I replaced mine. Because despite our resident 18 year old’s protestations they are basically fit and forget.
(18 year olds are generally burdened with knowing everything)

Code says the following. Non brittle is the debatable term.

 

[Bouba]

I feel like giving the ins co a spec document for them to sign agreeing to what they are insuring, rather like the proposal they get us to sign.

The trouble with that is as soon as you notify them about something innocent they go into defensive mode…assume you’ve modified it for nefarious purposes and then give you the third degree…which can be frustrating because they are on a subject of which they know nothing. So telling them or not telling probably amounts to the same thing

 

[Bouba]

Told by my surveyor who’s word is the law when coding. I could appeal or find another surveyor ti see if the outcome is different. But I trust the one I have.
Code says the following. Non brittle is the debatable term.

That’s a bit unsettling…because it’s not just the engine room but any place at risk of fire..which on a boat is everywhere

 

[Elessar]

That’s a bit unsettling…because it’s not just the engine room but any place at risk of fire..which on a boat is everywhere

The code only prohibits it in the machinery space but you are right it would be unsettling if it was a thing.

Trudesign etc way safer than the brass fittings fitted to many new CE compliant boats IMO

As “machinery space” covers 6 of my 8 seacocks I did DZR/bronze for the lot.
I wouldn’t have if I wasn’t coding.

 

[Portofino]

Do you ever run out of complete and utter made up rubbish ??

Do you ever read what’s posted and understand it , and never stop being rude ?

I asked 2 Q s and got polite answers . “ Could it be ………?

 

[lustyd]

Told by my surveyor who’s word is the law when coding. I could appeal or find another surveyor ti see if the outcome is different. But I trust the one I have.

It is a shame as I’d have chosen tru design when I replaced mine. Because despite our resident 18 year old’s protestations they are basically fit and forget.
(18 year olds are generally burdened with knowing everything)

Code says the following. Non brittle is the debatable term.

Thanks that's useful and would seem to be open to interpretation since TruDesign would argus that theirs are "other non-brittle fire resistant material". They certainly can't be described as brittle, especially with the load collars, and they've passed various fire tests so I wonder if it's time to start pushing back a bit harder on surveyors who are covering their own backsides. Perhaps even start mailing such survey results to TD for official comment.

Obviously you need to remain coded as priority one, I'm glad I don't have to code my boat!

 

[lustyd]

Trudesign etc way safer than the brass fittings fitted to many new CE compliant boats IMO

Many of those, certainly more premium brands, now fit TruDesign anyway. Those that don't are fitting DZR cocks on bronze through hulls so the days of truly dodgy seacocks are gone, but from everything I've seen TruDesign are fully compliant with all of the regs. That's why I keep asking for specifics on threads like this, if there truly is a problem then we should be able to get some justification for it from someone. Yours is the closest I've seen but even that doesn't actually say not to use them.

 

[Bobc]

My understanding is that nylon is a thermoplastic....... not a thermoset

Glass-filled nylon, is not nylon. It is effectively like GRP (i.e. fibreglass).

Glass-filled nylon fitting are used by all car manufactruers for fittings in their engine bays such as fuel injection systems.

 

[sailaboutvic]

He can say whatever he likes, but will need to justify such statements with some kind of evidence otherwise TruDesign would have very good grounds for action against him.

I guess it’s his option ,just like when a surveyor says engine works ok but might be better to get engineer to test ,
or mast looks fine Recommend get rigger to check , it’s all just His view In the end of the day.
at the same time pushing the responsibility on to some one else .

 

[Bouba]

I guess it’s his option ,just like when a surveyor says engine works ok but might be better to get engineer to test ,
or mast looks fine Recommend get rigger to check , it’s all just His view In the end of the day.
at the same time pushing the responsibility on to some one else .

The annoying thing about all surveyors (property and boat) is that they seldom say anything that you can hang your hat on…every report I’ve read is frustrating