Transitting Firing Practice Ranges rules

[Habebty]

It is interesting (to me at least) that the range safety boat "Sentinel", upon the occasion of my inadvertently straying slightly South of the range boundary at Foulness whilst beating into the Crouch, very courteously asked if I could please stay in the buoyed channel

Given that, per my earlier, they do actually have the right to order vessels to burger orf, that's an interesting contrast to attitudes elsewhere as reported

Well look on the bright side, they're never going to use the Thames Estuary as a submarine exercise area

Shoeburyness were making some pretty big bangs yesterday as I came through Foulgers Gat the hull was picking up the explosions! Must have been 10 miles away?
Dungeness is a strange one considering the average track and the fact the (nuclear) power-station is in the way yet still get chased by a guy in a rib warning about the possibility of mysterious 3/4 inch holes appearing in the sails.

 

[Seajet]

Because "insisting on your rights" is something you should never do at sea, whether it's a collision avoidance situation, or something like this. If they want you to go around, go around, however politely or rudely the request or order or whatever it is is delivered. Why argue? What's the point? Most likely there is an extremely good reason for the request, and if there is not any good reason for it, you will not be able to determine that in any case, so why create aggravation? Is a few miles of extra sailing such a terrible thing? I rather like sailing, myself.

Robin has the right idea; the detour around the Lulworth range is quite a few miles, adding hours which if heading west will usually mean punching into head winds and seas, that can be a lot for a small crew, say a young family.

I would go outside if at all possible and always have so far, but if crew strength or some medical or boat problem were an issue I'd have a chat with the range on VHF 8 and see if I could go through.

 

[Dockhead]

Does this apply only at sea, or on land as well? I can't see anything in your argument that's specifically maritime. Yet if we remove "at sea" from the above, we get the scarily Orwellian:

" 'insisting on your rights' is something you should never do. If they want you to go around, go around"

Pete

It is specifically maritime. There is a different social contract at sea. That is because the sea is an essentially hostile environment, which demands far greater cooperation between seamen than is strictly necessary for survival on land (whether the same attitudes might be desirable on land is a different question which I won't touch with a ten foot pole). That is why we help each other without hesitation and (generally, properly) without expectation of reward -- we could be next and probably will be next.

It also goes with collision avoidance, as an essential concept. The COLREGS do not convey any "rights" whatsover under any circumstances. The most basic and horribly lubberly mistake in collision avoidance is to think that someone ever at any time has anything like "right of way" at sea. You don't have any rights -- you have responsibilities and assigned roles. Any behavior which could be something like "standing on your rights" in a collision avoidance situation is a violation of the COLREGS, is dangerous, and is unseamanlike.

 

[Halo]

There is an active firing range on the way in to Kirkudbright. Anyone going through the Irish sea is likley to hear the coastguard talking to Galavideon (which is a range boat) as he clocks on and off. The boat kindly escorts you across this range during operations or asks for an appropriate detour. The chap that operates it is knowledgable and helpful so seams to get a lot of co operation. Last time I went across they were firing from helicopters and I was glad he was around !

 

[KellysEye]

We were heading down to Isla de Vieques off the south east of Puerto Rico and there was an American firing range used by fighters with a 5 mile exclusion zone on part of the south coast. We called on the firing rang VHF frequency a number of times to ask if we had stay out of the exclusion zone and had no answer. We turned in to anchor off a town and a F16 passed about 50 feet above our mast, at the time I was talking to an American boat who had contacted us about the firing range. The noise was awesome and the American heard it on the VHF and said ''are you still afloat''.

 

[Birdseye]

Did a bit of digging into the rules governing the range off the south wales coast between swansea and milford. There is a legal right to free passage across the range at sea but there is no right to loiter in the area. Thus the range boats have the legal power under local bye laws to move you on if you for some reason decided to anchor and fish. How they would do that I dont know.

Their request is to keep as close inshore as possible and they will shoot over your head.

Dont try crossing the ranges off the french atlantic coast. They dont stop firing

 

[Seajet]

kellys eye,

he wasn't trying; a Red Arrows Hawk clipped a yacht mast at Brighton a few years ago, I seem to remember it resulted in ejecting and binning an expensive aeroplane.

birdseye,

I had the range at Wembury just outside Plymouth ( now closed ) fire over our heads, it was disconcerting and shook the whole boat, almost as much as it shook this skipper !

 

[Robin]

kellys eye,

he wasn't trying; a Red Arrows Hawk clipped a yacht mast at Brighton a few years ago, I seem to remember it resulted in ejecting and binning an expensive aeroplane.

birdseye,

I had the range at Wembury just outside Plymouth ( now closed ) fire over our heads, it was disconcerting and shook the whole boat, almost as much as it shook this skipper !

I thought Septics don't like low level stuff and generally prefer to operate from a safe height well out of danger, if they need the low level attack approach they call in the RAF experts. We have air displays over Daytona and the thunderbirds/ Blue Angels are not a patch on the red Arrows other than making much more noise doing it.

It was the Wembury range I referred to much earlier that had the Dutch skipper frit when the outbound Paris -New York Concorde broke the sound barrier mid -channel and a warship was using an aldis lamp to flash a nearby navy helo. And we too heard the stuff whistle when going overhead, quite disconcerting when they had an inshore target close by us but not in use.

 

[NickRobinson]

I have to mention the range office at Aberporth today. What diplomacy and courtesy, clearing a 15m radius in Cardigan Bay for an air to sea missile drop.
I'd called up and been cleared to pass inshore, a fishing boat needed lots of cajoling, 'the air craft is en route, you are still 4 miles inside the zone, could you please proceed as soon as possible?'
Thanks all round to affected boats with the all clear.

 

[actionoptics]

Robin has the right idea; the detour around the Lulworth range is quite a few miles, adding hours which if heading west will usually mean punching into head winds and seas, that can be a lot for a small crew, say a young family.

I would go outside if at all possible and always have so far, but if crew strength or some medical or boat problem were an issue I'd have a chat with the range on VHF 8 and see if I could go through.

We did exactly that. They were firing into the outer range which had not noticed that morning when we checked. The wind was getting stronger, the tide would soon turn and the prospect of wind over tide with a tired crew plus a 6 or 7 miles southerly diversion, putting us too close to the Shambles Overfalls and then the Portland Race, was too much for me to agree to their "request". The Range Officer understood and asked us to proceed as quickly as possible which we were happy to oblige as we wanted to get to Weymouth before the stronger winds arrived.